Finding Paths to Sustainable Development in Africa

This transcript is from a CSIS podcast published on December 12, 2024. Listen to the podcast here. 

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Welcome to Into Africa. My name is Mvemba Phezo Dizolele. I'm a senior fellow and the director of the Africa Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. This is a podcast where we talk everything Africa, politics, economics, security, and culture. Welcome.

Africa is a continent, Africa is a destination, Africa is a place. At any given time is a subject, a generator, a recipient of all sorts of campaigns. You have Save the Children, you have Save the Gorillas, Save the Mountain, Save the Forest, campaigns about, uh, public debt and the impact, and all kinds of subjects, and matters, and topics that are of relevance to the Africans, but also to the world. In this episode today, we will explore the vision and impact of the ONE Campaign as it advocates for a more just and prosperous future for Africa. The ONE Campaign is a global advocacy organization committed to driving investments that are necessary to create economic opportunities and healthy lives across the continent.

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli, who has been leading the organization for 11 months as its president and CEO, will share her insight on key issues surrounding Africa's development, the evolving role of advocacy, and the challenges and opportunities facing the NGO sector today. For decades Africa has faced challenges rooted in underinvestment, political instability, and historical inequalities. However, with a young and dynamic population, rich natural resources, and growing global partnerships, the continent is positioned to transform its narrative and its own actions. This conversation will dive into the ways advocacy can reshape Africa's role in global discussions, explore the evolving landscape of African development, and discuss the potential for new models of partnerships with the Global North. Joining me to discuss these topics, as you may have guessed, is Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli herself of the ONE Campaign. With her deep expertise in both the non-profit sector and African development, Ndidi has been instrumental in advancing the ONE Campaign's mission to empower Africans to thrive economically and live healthier lives. Ndidi, welcome to CSIS Into Africa, it's a pleasure to have you.

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: You have won many hearts in the past, now you're in this capacity. You've been here at ONE Campaign for 11 months. How do you see the landscape of advocacy for better lives, and advocacy for greater investment in Africa from your standpoint?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Well, I think it's an interesting time to be alive, and it's am interesting time to be African in this changing geopolitical climate. I came into this job from a private sector, civil society lens after building companies and non-profits on the African continent and recognizing that Africans want agency and want a demand for growth and equitable respect. Uh, and so I came into this job after 20 years working on the ground in Nigeria and across Africa in agriculture and food, youth development, gender equity, private equity, consulting, and felt that, you know, we're kind of been stuck in a narrative, and the rest of the world that Africa is a dark hole, an investment vacuum, um, that the face of Africa is a hungry child, and the face of poverty is a female farmer from Africa. And I'm committed to changing that narrative and shifting that narrative to demonstrate the growth that I see on the continent, and the possibilities that I have experienced, and the immense impact and growth that's happening on the continent that the rest of the world is not aware of. And my commitment is really to build bridges and to ensure that we're demanding for what we want as Africans, not what the world thinks we need.

ONE Campaign presents a wonderful opportunity for that because for the last 20 years, the ONE Campaign has been at the forefront for fighting for these investments that Africa needs. Um, if you trace our history over the last 20 years, we've been at the forefront of, for fighting for debt forgiveness. And through our work in collaboration with many other civil society organizations, got about $110 billion worth of debt forgiven. We also were at the forefront of fighting for the creation of PEPFAR and for many, many other interventions, and collectively have fought for about $1 trillion worth of investments in Africa since, uh, we started. And so, I think this is a most important time in our history, and it's a defining moment for many advocacy organizations because we see almost the resets happening in the global economic landscape, and our work is more important now than ever before.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Because of your background, because of the, uh, various perspectives that you bring, you mentioned a couple things. One, I want to focus on is building the bridges.

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Mm-hmm.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: How do you build the bridge from that private sector experience into this advocacy world? The intersect-

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Mm-hmm.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: But those are two different worlds often, even though they live side by side. Do you see that bridge really being built? What does it look like?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Yeah, so I think you're right that in many organizations and many perspectives, we continue to work in silos in the development landscape, but I see it as a different kind of bridge. So, there's no way that you can have sustainable development anywhere in the world without the private sector, the private sector is a critical piece of the puzzle. In our landscape actually, we talk about public sector, private sector, and civil society. And for economies to develop, you need all three legs of the stool working collaboratively, growing collaboratively, and holding each other accountable. And so, my world has actually intersected with all three, I've done a lot with the public sector because we need an enabling environment for business to thrive. I've done a lot with the non-profit sector because you need data, accountability, transparency, and you need that third sector to fill gaps that the public and private sector is not filling. But ultimately the engine of growth in any economy is the private sector, that's where you create jobs, that's where you create wealth. And, uh, I have been fortunate to build businesses in Africa that are African-grown, African-led, and actually, uh, thriving.

So, for me, the experiences I've garnered from those three sectors prepared me for this rule. That said, it hasn't been an easy transition to Washington D.C (laughs) and to the politics of our time, which I think even for the most seasoned advocates, there's a new skill set that is required to be built. But I think one thing I'm bringing is, I recognize, and I understand the concept of return on investment and that's what we're being challenged to demonstrate today. What is the return investment for an investment on development finance? What's the return on investment on PEPFAR? What's the return on investment on GAVI, the global fund on IDA, on ODA more broadly? And I recognize that, and I understand that from the business world, what is the impact for every dollar contributed to development? And how can we demonstrate as a community that every dollar derives impacts for the people on the African continent, and also mutually beneficial impact for the American people? That's what we're called to demonstrate today, and I think because I have that business lens, I'm better positioned to understand that link and that bridge that we're building that needs to be built even more effectively.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Those are a lot of things that need to be bridged- (laughs)

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: (laughing)

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: ... just the panoply of things you just mentioned. So, let's take it to one step at a time 'cause here I have a long list of things that you refer to from debt forgiveness, PEPFAR. You know, there's a track record of what ONE Campaign has been able to contribute to, or sometime achieve by itself. And the others is the call for collective work for institution for the three, I think the private sector, public sector, and then the NGO world advocacy civil society coming together. You also talk about data collection, use for accountability and transparency and so on, return on investment. How do we account for projects through GAVI, ODA, so on? So let's just step back a little bit. ONE Campaign, what is it? We know those of us who follow that world, it's all Bono, Bono, Bono, Bono, but we know it's, uh, like how the organization probably evolved in many ways. So, what is it? Where did you find it? Where are you trying to take it? And then within that response, we can come back to this list of things you laid out for us.

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Okay. So the ONE Campaign is a global advocacy organization. It was actually first called DATA, Debt, AIDS Trade for Africa. And it was founded by Bono, Bobby Shriver, Jamie Drummond, and Lucy Matthews in collaboration with many other civil society organizations over 20 years ago. And it was founded at a time in history where we really felt that there was an urgent need to fight for justice and equity. And at ONE we believed that none of us are equal until all of us are equal, and where you're born should not determine whether you live. And ONE uses a very complex toolkit composed of, I would say four buckets of items. First, we use data and AI to distill critical insights to inform data-driven policymaking. We believe data is still critical, even at a time when we talk about alternative truths, to demonstrate what impact is, where impact is required, and how change needs to happen.

We also use a very strong base because of our celebrity background where we have groups we call trusted messengers, faith leaders, community activists, youth champions who join us to advocate for the changes we require and use their voices to amplify the issues that matter and to demand for change. We also have very strong government relations teams in each of our markets who advocate within government and with government but also hold governments accountable to deliver for people. And then we use partnerships with civil society and other organizations that share passion and our vision to achieve, both at the grassroots and at the grass tops impact. We have offices in all our G7 countries, so we have an office in the UK, in Berlin, in Brussels, in Paris, the US in D.C where we're sitting today, Canada. But we also are registered as local organizations in South Africa, Nigeria, Senegal, and we have team members in East Africa.

And so, this footprint allows us to really be a force for advocating for Africa. And as you mentioned at the beginning, our mission is clearly l- spelled out that we only focus on Africa, that's the region we fight for, the investments to ensure economic growth and healthy lives. But our vision is that Africa is an equal player, and that vision I think is bold, it's ambitious, but it's a vision required for our time.

And so, I'm at this organization, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants who have fought for and worked for critical issues. And I think that our fight is more important than ever before because with all the complexity in our world, the focus on Africa is declining. There are so many other causes and issues that are at the front and center. And um, clearly for me, Africa is a continent that cannot be ignored, not only because of its size, its demographic dividend, the fact that we are creating the workforce for the future, We're critical for many, many components of a global economy, uh, especially critical minerals, food and ag, creative industries, technology. But also, I think the world has a lot to learn from Africa, and it's ignoring Africa as its own peril. And so, for me, this is a great time to advocate for Africa, this is a great time to build bridges, and it's a great time to champion the causes that we believe are critical for humanity.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Given what you just said, equal partner, equal player, demanding respect. Your organization, while focused on Africa, has offices and teams in various places around the world. How do you help Africa build that standing, where they're equal player, where they have the agency, and they command the respect they need when some of the data points that we all come across are not very encouraging? You know, governance is an important part of the work that you do. Accountability is an important part of the work that you do. Engaging with public officials and government, while Africa is a big place and you cannot put everyone in the same bucket, there's a variation of that. So within the context of some of that accountability, and the requests or the demand that investors quote-unquote or your founders will want on that ROI, the return on investment on the dollar, whether is in public health and other sector, how do you navigate that space remaining to the values that you have espoused as an institution and as a CEO? How do you navigate that space to deliver?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: So, I think it's a great question. I would like to use a very practical example with what we're contending with at the moment. So, South Africa is hosting the G20, we actually fought for African Union to have a seat at the G20, and we're really proud that South Africa is hosting the G20. And one of the causes we've taken on is the cost of capital. We've taken on the cost of capital because we believe that there's really a risk premium placed on African debt that is high and unfair. And that's why many of our countries are in debt distress. Africans pay, both private sector and public sector, sometimes 500% more than their counterparts in the rest of the world. And we have pushed for South Africa to take on this cost of capital as an issue in the G20.

Now, we've gone to Africa from our Africa team pushing for this on the continent, I was just in Addis at the AU, we pushed for the cost of capital. Why is it important? Most Africans recognize that we pay an unfair premium. Even the Africa No Filter has quantified the cost of negative reporting just about elections in Africa at a f- $4.2 billion cost, but that even minimizes the full cost because we know that Africa pays more. More money flows out of Africa than flows in because our countries took, you know, Euro bonds at 6%, et cetera. And so, there's a case that's bubbling up from the African continent because we need concessional financing and catalytic patient growth capital to invest in infrastructure, to invest in industry and to grow.

Now, you can champion this all you want on the African continent, but where is the source of capital? The source of capital is in the G7 countries, it's in Asia, it's in the west. And so, our offices in other parts of the world are also taking on this issue and holding governments accountable for how they lend to the African continent, how they support the African continent, how debt needs to be framed and restructured, and how it needs to be addressed. And that's one of the reasons the ONE Campaign fought for IDA. IDA was the World Bank Concessional Financing, it was a campaign issue we took on in all our G7 countries because IDA gives loans at 0 to 2%, 70% of that money is earmarked for Africa, and so it's directly linked to the cost of capital, but you cannot campaign for more funding without addressing the elephant in the room.

We're also supporting the Africa credit rating agencies, and I was also in that conversation during the AU summit. And so, we believe that you need to be doing this work on the African continent, but you also need to be doing the same advocacy work in all of our centers of economic and financial power, and that you need to connect the dots. So, our Africa team campaigns and advocates on the ground for an accountable leadership. When these funds come in, we also follow the money to make sure it's utilized effectively for the African people and generates a return on investment. But we hold our G7 partners accountable for how they deliver for Africa because that equal player means financing has to be fair, it has to be equitable. No one region should pay more than another region because of a risk premium. There are many countries around the world that have a risky investment environment, but you don't brand a whole continent as one thing. If 1 country, or 2 countries, or 10 countries out of 54 are having a conflict, does that mean the entire continent is having a conflict? So that concept of fair financing, of transparency and accountability, of advocacy for equitable financing for Africans is something that we're doing on the continent, but we're also doing in our G7 countries. So that's an example of how one shows up in its creativity, its complexity, but also, it's data-driven approach to policymaking.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: The challenge there or the question I have for you, we live here, you and I are in Washington D.C right now. We have channels of, for advocacy that are very clear, very straightforward, built over years, over decades. What channels for advocacy exist on the African continent when you navigate the same issues because they feel and look differently from wherever you stand?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: The great news is that there are think tanks on the African continent that also are partnering with us on the same of data. For the cost of capital commission, ONE Campaign partnered with SAIIA. SAIIA is the South African think tank right there on the ground. So that ownership and that data sharing is happening, right? There's nothing we do without engaging with the African Union and the different commissions including EC and others because we really believe that ownership has to be homegrown. We're also building out a network of civil society partners on the ground, but the great news is that we have our youth champions and activists on the ground, ONE has, every year recruits’ young social innovators and activists on the ground from seven African countries who also take our issues and campaign. At the African Union just last week we had 10 of our champions from across Africa sitting in the same rooms with the African leaders, talking about these issues and bringing the youth voice.

So, it's a combination of think tanks, civil society organizations, youth champions in partnership with government and private sector, sitting with us to make change happen. Is it easy? No. Does it take time? Yes. Is it complex and messy? Absolutely. Do we get frustrated? Many times. But we must not relent, and we cannot relent because generations are depending on us for what we do in this moment. And so, I've learned that advocacy's a lot more difficult than running a business, it's a long-term fight. And last week we celebrated Mandela at 20. I just wanna mention this: we actually recreated the Mandela speech at Trafalgar Square, and we actually played it at Trafalgar Square with his image, it was beautiful, and it was an amazing thing, and people cried. And when he came to London 20 years ago, it was right before the Gleneagles G8 Summit, and he called on a generation to be great, and he said, "We must be that generation."

And at that time the campaign was Make Poverty History, and it was a number of NGOs that came together to launch that campaign. This time, what are we fighting for? Still justice and equity. We've made a lot of gains cutting poverty in half, but we still have a long way to go to make poverty history. And what we are doing is calling on that next generation to be great. And recognizing that that mantle of leadership has been passed on to some of us to take on, to continue to fight for justice and equity. And um, I left London inspired and challenged, remembering the legacy of Madiba, and recognizing that it's a long walk to freedom, it doesn't happen overnight, but we have to stay the course.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: One word you mention is voice or voices. When shifts are happening or when Mandela came out of prison, uh, and Namibia and South Africa going through independence, or Zimbabwe before that, but now we're dealing with different shifts. And one group that you mentioned with l- youth leaders, youth organizations. As these shifts are happening, how do you ensure as an advocate, as an organization, that these changes are actually something that the world is aware of? Because in a place like Africa, you mentioned this, so there's one country that is in conflict, the next-door country may not be in conflict, but the story will be about conflict. So how do you magnify the story, so they make it into the mainstream? The media is still for the most part driven north to south, not the other way around.

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: So, there are a couple of things we are doing. The first thing is that we've launched this Africa's One Voice. It's a newsletter that the ONE Campaign Africa team has launched to raise the voices of our youth, of our civil society, of our private sector, of our leaders and amplify them on the global stage. And we find opportunities to launch Africa's One Voice at global events. The first Africa's ONE Voice was launched at the World Health Summit in Berlin in October, and it was on health financing, and what Africans want from health and health financing. And it was important that we're sitting in Berlin with the World Health Summit, and we're hearing what Africans want. We're launching another one at the G20 on what Africans want when it comes to financing, right? Because it's important to use that opportunity to raise that voice. And I think finding those moments is what the campaign magic is about.

I was the Munich Security Conference and our team had put together these dollar bill campaigns $103, and I was handing it to people. And they're like, "103, what is this about?" And then you turn over and it says, "A dollar spent on development saves you $103 spent on conflict." And we've done work behind it, there was a QR code to show the direct benefit of investing in development, of investing in economic growth and health as opposed to investing when it gets too late. And I think that concept of showing people the benefits of investing today and giving them something that's simple enough for them to own and understand raises their voices. So, we use those moments, amplify African voices, African narratives, and African stories. And we also partner with many other people to do that, um, because it's important to showcase new voices, it's also important to showcase youth voices.

Our Europe champions have also partnered with the Africa champions, and they go to each other's continents to also share stories and work together to amplify new narratives. And then we believe strongly in trips, we do take people to the African continent for them to see themselves, the progress, the technology advancements, the Hollywoods and Nollywoods of the world, our fashion industry, and our music industry. And to showcase that the complexity of our continent, the beauty of our continent is one that most people don't fully understand and cannot fully appreciate until they go.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Advocacy on behalf of Africa is a critical part of your, your work, uh, your mission. And I think you have laid out the ground for a lot of the works that you do. Can you talk a little more about the major shift that you've seen? Maybe you are in the private sector looking outside, and now you are looking kind of the other way. What are the major shifts that the world should be aware of in this space?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: I would say the first major shift is the African agency shift. Where right now Africans are demanding for a seat at the table, they're demanding for their voices to be heard, and they're not comfortable being on the receiving end of what the world thinks we should have. We as Africans want to define the future we deserve, and we are seeing that, not only with this seat at the G20, we are seeing that with calls even on the African continent for new partnership with the rest of the world and a new paradigm.

The second is geopolitics. We're seeing across the world, many countries retreating into me first, my country first. And a lot of the partnerships and the blocs that existed are being questioned, the role of multilateral institutions is being questioned, the world order as we used to know it is being questioned. And I think that's also another wake-up call for African leaders, and I heard it loudly in the AU, we know nobody's coming to save us, we have to save ourselves and get our act together. And that recognition, uh, wake-up call moment is happening as we speak. And I think, I'm proud to see many African leaders embracing the challenge to step up and do what they're supposed to do for their people.

The third is the way that we engage with media has changed significantly, even the way we engage with celebrities has changed significantly in ONE's 20-year history. Who people trust today and who they listen to has changed dramatically. People listen and trust individuals who are their next-door neighbors, individuals who are their peers. And there's a real trust deficit in our society, and how we engage with people, and how we connect with people is also being questioned.

And then the fourth one is really around data and AI. Technology shifts have also redefined information flows, and this concept of what is true and what is not true, and what we can believe and what we can't believe also makes it harder to convince people of what the truth is, and what the reality is. And so, I think, um, that's where creating experiences and connecting to hearts and minds of people is even harder than ever before because there's so much noise in the system. And I could go on and on, but those are the four major ones, and it's challenging anybody who works in advocacy, right? To come up with new and innovative ways to connect, and new and innovative ways to kind of remind people of the shared humanity we have, and the importance of fighting for equity and justice, and fighting for a future that we deserve as humanity.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Trust deficit, trusting your neighbor, trusting your imam and so on. That, because you spoke of the changes that we see in the media space, that also opens up the other dimension, which is technology. Technology has been liberalized-

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Mm-hmm.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: ... so to speak. A few years ago, we moved from the major papers, you can create your own blog, the blog has led-

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: ... the conversation. Now, we have TikTok, we have Instagram-

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli:

 Mm-hmm.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: ... an entire cadre of influencers have risen, but that leads itself also to misinformation-

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Mm-hmm.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: ... and so on. How do you factor that in, in this engagement?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Well, at the ONE Campaign we've built out a few models that we're testing out. One is our Ubuntu circles. So, in every G7 country we've created Ubuntu circles made up of Africans and friends of Africa who cut across all of the dimensions you've talked about, former politicians, faith leaders, celebrity voices, youth voices, leaders in think tanks who can hold us accountable, shape the work we do, and push us to deliver for our people. The second is our faith communities. We have a faith council made up of leaders from all faiths who hold us accountable but also challenge us and help us to connect with their congregations and their spheres of influence. And then third, we're building out an Africa diaspora creative council, a technology council because we believe, like you said, technology is key to the future of how we engage. And we're building out all of these groups to shape the work we do and make us, not only agile, responsive, but also effective at such a difficult time in our history.

Beyond those we also, as I mentioned, building out what we're calling a ONE academy. We wanna reach a million young people with skills and tools to become activists. First to know their place in the world, to learn about the inequities, and why they matter. And this is building on ONE's 20-year history of grooming the next generation of activists. And we believe young people who are armed with information, and care deeply about humanity are well positioned to, not only fight for Africa, but to be our biggest and strongest advocates. And also, to become the next generation of, uh, politicians and leaders who are informed and engaged, and can govern well. And so, we're using all these levers. We can't say which one is going to be successful, but we know it's gonna be a combination of these levers to ensure that we remain relevant, timely, but also impactful.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: In your opinion then, you know, there's a word we hear a lot, partnership, partnership, everybody talks about partnership in private sector, and even public o- officials always talk about partnerships. In your opinion, how can advocacy for Africa move beyond the traditional aid-based model, and transition into more collaborative and sustainable partnership frameworks? You've touched into a lot of points, but can we crystallize it a little bit?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Yes. So, I would say for example, we recognize that the current aid apparatus is never going to be what it was before, and it's not business as usual. And so, when we think about catalytic financing for health, and catalytic financing for economic growth, there's a grant component, there's a concessional financing component, there's a diaspora funding component, but also a pure debt component. And this is where you need partnerships, right? You're gonna need partnerships from the development finance institutions, the trade banks, the insurance and pension funds. You're gonna need investment from philanthropists, both African philanthropists and global philanthropists. You're gonna need investments from regular individuals who care about these causes. And there's no way that we can fill the financing gaps that exist today just depending on one of these channels. And so, we're dreaming of a future that creates catalytic, long-term funds that are built on partnerships, and are built on transparency and accountability, and impacts. And the only way we pull these resources is through partnerships.

And so that's one of the things we are co-designing with others. One is the future of health financing for Africa. And that's gonna be a very robust pathway to sustainability that's built with different stakeholders, recognizing that Africans want to be sustainable, and want to lead their own financing future when it comes to their health. And they don't want to ever be dependent on another region paying for their nurses or paying for medicine. And that pathway is what ONE is leading on to co-design with many others to say, what does that future look like? And the fund is piece of it, the policy framework is another piece of it, and the actors that are change agents that lead the implementation is a third piece. So, watch this space, it's very exciting. But there's nothing that we can do around the future of health financing, or the future of economic growth and trade financing in Africa without partnerships.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: The area you just alluded to, public health, is key. It is key for everything. No health, no good health, no life. How are African countries tapping into these ideas that you just mentioned? So, we know in a lot of countries the public health sector is financed just unbelievably at a highly rate by outsiders. We know that maternity and childcare is key, but a lot of countries are not delivering. While we can talk about the private sector coming in, and advocate like yourself coming in, policy still matters. How are you, from where you stand and your teams in the field, engaged to raise that awareness so that when the other side of partnerships comes, Africans are ready to ride that wave so to speak?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Well, the good news is that we've already started that process. We've had round tables in different parts of the continent around the future of health financing, and we've had civil society at the table, public sector and private sector saying, what is required for us to achieve the maternal mortality rates that we deserve, where no woman should die during childbirth? And we're seeing a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of catalytic innovations financing emerge, and we're pulling all the key stakeholders together, and we're doing the same type of conversation in all our G7 countries. And together we're developing a roadmap to help us on this pathway to sustainability, so it started. And I'm excited to see the ownership that African leaders are taking in terms of domestic resource mobilization, in terms of unlocking catalytic financing, in terms of pulling capital from very sources. And in terms of saying we want to own our future; we never want to be dependent on another world region.

So, we've started the process, there's enthusiasm on the ground, there's enthusiasm across the G7 countries that this ownership is African-led, African-designed with a pathway that's been worked out. So, I'm optimistic that we can do it differently this time, and that countries are stepping up to say, "Yes, we committed in terms of their Abuja Declarations to a minimum contribution for our GDP to health. We have missed the mark, but we are going to do better. We committed to invest in this sector, and it's our responsibility, we can't expect any other country to own that responsibility." And we're seeing the shifts happening at the moment.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: One test was the last pandemic we experienced, COVID. We mentioned GAVI earlier, and the pandemic exposed all kind of fault lines and gaps. Because you're dealing in this public health sphere as well, what do you see? Are the gaps being bridged to use your own metaphor?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Well, the exciting thing is that Africa CDC and GAVI are partnering in new ways. And just last June they launched the Africa Vaccine Manufacturers Accelerator. I was at the launch at the Lycee in France. This accelerator is envisaged as an opportunity for African private sector to begin to manufacture vaccines domestically, and to ensure vaccine sovereignty. And I have to tell you, the emerging organizations and companies in Senegal, in South Africa, and even in Rwanda, that have taken on this challenge and are partnering with GAVI, Africa CDC, and other players to ensure investment knowledge transfer and impact.

And just at the Munich Security Conference, a very senior official in Germany told me he visited this manufacturing facility in Senegal, and he was so impressed to see the progress in just 12 months. So, there are green shoots, there are examples emerging, and I'm optimistic that with a holistic perspective, a roadmap towards sustainability and emerging private sector leaders who are filling this gap, that will see a situation where Africa is never reliant on the rest of the world in a pandemic. And that when other countries close their borders, we are well-positioned to continue to survive and thrive, and even export eventually to other world regions because we have learned from the mistakes of the past, and we're never gonna repeat them. And that's the commitment that I hope that more African leaders are making given the lessons of the past.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: One piece that we talked a lot, um, partnership, private sector, and so there's a partnership that has been working for a long time, which still trying to figure out, and that's corruption, right? The role of corruption, illicit capital flows, how they hinder development. In other words, it's much more difficult for you and me to send $500 to Brussels, all kind of safeguards that have been placed for just for that transfer to your bank. But yet we know there are billions (laughs) of dollars that are flowing all over direction. What are we missing there? Because that's a different type of partnership that seems to be working pretty well to the detriment and at the expense of Africans.

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Yeah, it's a very important point. And at the Africa-Europe Forum in Brussels in November, I think we estimated it's about $89 billion worth of illicit financial flows, and that is sizable and could f- plug significant gaps as we talk about health, sovereignty, economic growth, trade, and infrastructure. I think there's a commitment from the African Union and the European Union to really tackle this. Towards the end of this year, there's gonna be an Africa-Europe Forum in Africa, and we have challenged both sides of the fence to come and tell us what they've achieved since the last Africa-Europe Forum on these illicit financial flows. I think there's a place for mutual accountability, transparency, and punishment of those who have been complicit because it's unacceptable that this continues to be sustained without a clear recourse. And if countries really commit to exposing the fault lines, and to returning the funds into the right pockets of where these funds should be, I think we will see a change.

And so yes, it's something we have an eye on. It's, it's an issue that is critical and timely, and I think that technology allows us to follow the money in many, many circumstances. And it takes political will, and courage, wisdom, and a sense of urgency to plug those gaps. So, I am with you, this needs to be done, and I'm calling like you are calling out in those positions to unlock this. And I, I was happy to hear that A- European Union taking some responsibility because a lot of the funds are in the European Union in many coffers, in many institutions and, uh, African Union also calling this out. So, let's see where we move from words to action.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Who are the standard-bearers in that fight?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: I would say that I don't know if I can point out specific names of the standard-bearers, but what I recognize is that the Africa-Europe Foundation, which was co-founded by Mo Ibrahim, has been following this closely. And um, I have a lot of respect for Mo Ibrahim who used to sit on the ONE Campaign board. He and others are following closely this fight and are pushing for progress. And EU commissioners have been called to book on this and so have African heads of states at other commissioners. So, I would say let's watch this space, but in terms of explicit names of who, (laughs) who is being held accountable-

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: No, not name. I just wanna know the main actors, the main buckets, of, of actors, yeah.

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Yes, yes, yes. At the end of the day, it's financial institutions that are complicit in helping us leverage innovation and technology to follow this.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: One element that we've not discussed today, Ndidi is migration.

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Mm-hmm.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Migration is a huge problem, I think, or obstacle even the relationship between, not just Europe and Africa, Europeans like to say they're neighbors to Africa, therefore they care. I'm not sure if they care as much. Migration cross Atlantic now, Africans living the coast of Senegal and Nigeria and going to Brazil. But the biggest part of migration is internal, inter-African migration or intra-Africa. Is this a space that you're looking at? It's a natural yearning for people to move, yet we talk about laws, but also life imperatives that are to be accepted. How do you approach that space, or do you approach this space at all?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Yeah. So, we don't specifically tackle migration, but we tackle both the root causes and the benefits of migration. The first is, if you have economic growth in countries and you can provide people with a livable wage, health insurance, and a better l- life, an opportunity for the African dream, they will not leave their country or their region. And so, while we fight for the investments to ensure economic growth, we recognize that, that is directly linked to creating a brighter future. And for all the companies I've started, my team members do not leave Nigeria, they don't leave Africa because they have a great life. And we need to create more businesses that keep our young people and our best and brightest in Africa. But where our best and brightest choose to leave, migration is not a bad thing, right? It leads to the same remittances, $80 billion in remittances came into Africa in 2023.

And guess what? We are producing the workforce for the future, not just in healthcare, but in technology. And as other populations age, Africa is developing and producing the workforce for the future. And the rest of the world will need African talent, African brains, African creativity, and energy. And so, for me, that respect of what we have is critical. I always tell people, if Africans decided they were not going to work in the healthcare system in the UK, NHS would shut down for a day. And many cities in America would shut down for a day because they have African nurses and doctors who they did not train, but they're benefiting from their skills.

And so, we should recognize that we're bringing a lot to the table. We need the data to support how much we're bringing to the table, but anecdotal evidence supports us in this regard, same with technology. So I think it's important we start quantifying our contributions as migrants in many economies where we are, and also celebrating that narrative so that it shifts from the African jumping on the ship to saying, "Yeah, let's g- give them a dignified passage to the great job that they're going to be fulfilling in your economy, and treat them as equals in that economy because they're bringing value." And so, I think that shift has to happen, we as Africans have a role to play in making that shift happen. We also have a role to play in ensuring that we create phenomenal growth opportunities for our young people to stay, and the choice to determine whether they're gonna stay or whether they're going to leave. But Africans should never have to leave because of conflict, or because the economic refugees and that's on us to create the safe spaces for that future. But I am optimistic that if we do the work we're doing well, we'll have a different narrative around this.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: The fundamentals for that training is education. Access to education remains still a big challenge in parts of Africa. Do you think Africa is working hard to bridge that gap, whether we're talking gender-based, or class-based, or region-based?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: I think we've made significant progress when it comes to education. What we're not doing is doing enough to prepare young people for the 21st century skills that they need. Education is still very trapped in old colonial models, and we need new models that are African led for the 21st century. And that's where I'd like to see a lot more growth and investment. And we have technology to allow us to leapfrog today where we don't have to be stuck in old models. So, I'm excited about what we can do, and I've r- seen great innovations in this area from many African entrepreneurs, social entrepreneurs who are doing amazing things. I’m happy to share many of their stories in another podcast.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Indeed. Is there a revolution going on that I'm not aware of because I hear you, there are all kind of parts that are moving on the continent?

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Well, as you know, I'm a social innovator. I come from a field of people who believe that where there are problems, there are solutions. And I have been immersed and surrounded by social innovators who are solving problems in Africa. Their names might not be known in the West, but they're sitting on the continent and they're making change happen. In education there's a guy called Chinezi Chijioke, he started a chain of schools in South Africa and Kenya, doing really amazing work. And it's called Nova Pioneer, I've seen it with my own eyes. Curriculum rooted in the best from the western education, he went to Harvard and Stanford, but grounded in African ideals. He happens to be a Nigerian, and building chains of schools in South Africa and Kenya, from K through 12. And when you see that resilience, innovation, and advancement, it warms your heart. We have the same in health.

So, I'm saying I can go through all the sectors and tell you that they're Africans building models that the rest of the world is learning from. In health is mDoc started by Nneka Mobisson-Etuk, using AI to transform health. These are the people I surround myself with, and they inspire me. I've done the same in agriculture and food in partnership with my husband. And so, because we've done this, our hands have gotten dirty, and we've done it in spite of the ecosystem in which we work, and in spite of the negative narratives in the rest of the world, I believe we can and we must scale these type of innovations.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: So, there's a quiet revolution ongoing.

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: It is, and it shouldn't be so quiet. That's why we need people like you to amplify our voices, so thank you for this opportunity.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Well, thank you. On that note, I really want to thank you again, Ndidi, for joining us, uh, on Into Africa. That was Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli, CEO and president of the ONE Campaign joining us in into Africa today.

Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli: Thank you so much.

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Thank you for listening. We want to have more conversations about Africa. Tell your friends, subscribe to our podcast at Apple Podcasts. You can also read our analysis and report at CSIS.org/Africa. So long.