This transcript is from a CSIS event hosted on July 12, 2024. Watch the full video here.
(Video plays.)
Kathleen McInnis: What should NATO’s story be? Why are we going to need the alliance for another 75 years? To get these answers CSIS took an unorthodox approach and asked our world’s most influential storytellers, Hollywood screenwriters, what they think NATO’s future story ought to be.
(Music plays.)
Stephan Biegun: It should not surprise us that the story is not known or has been forgotten by many. After all, for 75 years the NATO alliance has successfully defended the security and prosperity of North America and Europe. It has allowed memories of two terrible world wars to fade into the background. We may have forgotten the importance of NATO precisely because it has been so successful at keeping peace.
Dr. McInnis: We invited eight screenwriters to see for themselves what this alliance truly represents. We met with people from all around the alliance – senior U.S. government and NATO officials, local leaders, young activists, student filmmakers, and military servicemembers. And we talked with folks who are on the front lines of defending democracy every day, including with wounded Ukrainian soldiers. What did we learn from all of this?
Amanda Johnson-Zetterström: You know, we always talk about the wars that happened, but I don’t think that we talk about the wars that didn’t happen. And I’m so grateful that NATO exists to keep those wars from happening.
Christine Levinson: NATO is a bit like sunblock. You know, on the days that you remember to put it on you don’t have to think about it. It just protects you. And you can go out into the world and do everything that you want to do. You can swim. You can run. You can hang with friends. You can get a cup of coffee. The days you forget to put it on, the days you neglect your block – (laughs) – you’re going to get burned.
(Music plays.)
Sam Shaw: Peace is a verb – or, has to be a verb, not a noun. It has to be actively protected and pursued. And that’s going to take a lot of work on everybody’s part.
(Music plays.)
Marqui Jackson: I did not know that every decision was made by consensus, and that everyone had to agree, and that no matter what size your country was or how much you were putting in – if you could do the 2 percent of GDP – that your voice was weighted and mattered equally.
Max Brooks: What impacted me was the connections made by different people from different worlds. People who, for decades, would have never talked to each other, wouldn’t even have known about each other, and yet we all need each other to defend the values we all share. So this trip was a special experience because we started reintroducing ourselves to each other.
Mr. Biegun: NATO’s story is a testament to the power of cooperation and collective action. As we reflect on the past 75 years of our alliance, and look ahead to the future, we must be determined in telling its story to this generation.
Dr. McInnis: Seeing NATO through the screenwriter’s eyes taught us that NATO’s story is one of connection. It’s a place where many of the world’s democracies can come together to solve the world’s hardest problems. We are not alone. Together we are powerful. And that is inspiring.
(Video ends.)
Dr. McInnis: Good afternoon to our audience here in the studio and online. Welcome to our conversation with LeAnne Howard, who’s a special advisor for NATO, a summit coordinator for the National Security Council at the White House – basically the person running the summit for the White House. Small things. You know, small things, right?
LeAnne Howard: Team effort.
Dr. McInnis: Big team. Lots of cats herded. We’re also joined by Scott Silveri, who as one of our screenwriters who, amongst other things, wrote “Friends,” and has just been a delight to meet and to spend time with. I’m also joined by Christine Levinson, who, amongst her credits, includes “Law and Order,” “Tyrant,” and has been just an amazing collaborator through all of this. So thank you so much. It’s such a delight to be joined by friends, and to reflect on these experiences that we had together, and what we think – what we think this could mean for the future, and how we might think about the NATO alliance and how we do business a little bit differently.
But before we get started into the meat and potatoes of what happened and what our reflections are, I’d love to get a sense from you guys, your origin stories. Like, what got you into this space, this place – and the White House – (laughs) – working on national security, but also as showrunners. Like, what got you into these places? So, LeAnne, if I could turn to you, and then go around, and sort of go from there.
Ms. Howard: Well, thank you, Kathleen and CSIS for bringing this phenomenal group together. I’m so excited to be at this table with you, after a wonderful week. (Laughter.) So just to quickly start, going back, I’ve been with the Department of Defense for 20 years. And I’m on loan to the White House because I am a NATO nerd in my heart of hearts, and will always be a NATO nerd. (Laughter.)
But going back a little further, on September 11th I was in graduate school right outside of New York City. We saw the smoke come up the Long Island Sound. I was so scared. And I knew very little about NATO. In fact, I grew up in Honolulu. My grandmother lived through Pearl Harbor. She was still alive and couldn’t get in touch with me that day. She still is. She’s 104 today.
Scott Silveri: Oh, wow!
Dr. McInnis: Happy birthday. (Laughter.)
Ms. Howard: Right, right? But all that said, yes. Yes, I was scared. We were all scared. And we didn’t know what was going to happen. But looking at what did happen, we had friends, and we had a treaty, and we had this alliance that could collectively respond, because we were committed to each other. And I learned about that afterwards.
So just a couple of years later, I was working out in a field in Romania, as Romania was hustling to get into the alliance. And this was not by accident. This is because they knew if they got into NATO, they’d be safer. So my entire career has bounced back and forth between really working with European allies more broadly, quite a bit of time with special operations as well – (laughs) – but focused on working with our allies and partners to strengthen our resilience and our ability to collectively deter and defend. And so looking forward to talking to others who can tell these stories to others – (laughter) – because we all talk to each other a lot, but we really need to get it out more widely.
Dr. McInnis: Mmm hmm. Chris, if I could turn to you for your origin story.
Ms. Levinson: I have a similarly historical and monumental origin story. (Laughter.) I hit a producer with my car. (Laughter.) Back a little bit, my father was a television writer so I grew up with a storyteller who, at dinner, when I got to see him – which was most nights – really took seriously the audience that he could reach. And he always ingrained upon me that don’t write something if you don’t have something to say.
So years later, I was determined not to do what my father did, as I think most kids do, but I had two units I still had to fulfill at Stanford. So I wrote a script. Was having lunch with a friend on the Fox lot. His boss was standing in the parking spot I was assigned. And so I didn’t hit him. I nudged him. It was a bumper nudge. (Laughter.)
Dr. McInnis: It’s a love tap.
Ms. Levinson: It was.
Mr. Silveri: Should you be talking about the case while it’s ongoing? (Laughter.)
Ms. Levinson: This is off the record. I think that’s right. I know we did settle (Laughter.)
Mr. Silveri: Yeah.
Ms. Levinson: He asked what I did. I had a script in the trunk. (Laughter.) He read it, and he offered me a job. And thus started my career in television. I was 22 years old. And I kept saying I wasn’t going to keep doing it. And that was, you know, five years ago. So I still have choices. (Laughter.)
Dr. McInnis: For all aspiring screenwriters that are out there on the online audience, do not –
Ms. Levinson: Yeah, no vehicular manslaughter, no.
Dr. McInnis: Do not recommend vehicular manslaughter to enter the field.
Ms. Levinson: No. Although, it’s handy. Yeah. Yeah. (Laughter.)
Dr. McInnis: It did wonders.
Scott, what got you into the business?
Mr. Silveri: I mean, I got to start by saying, man, am I honored to be here on this.
Ms. Levinson: I missed that part. (Laughter.) Sorry.
Mr. Silveri: No, you’re part of why I’m honored. So I’m the one that should be actually honored. Yeah, Smart Women, Smart Power, and this guy for some reason. (Laughter.)
Let’s see, my origin story. I grew up outside New York City, in a, you know, working-class town, working-class family, blue-collar job. My dad and – so nobody’s dad or mom did this for a living where I came from. It didn’t even occur to me that it might be a possibility. The names that happened in front of TV shows didn’t seem to be real people. But I was always a writer. And I was – I enjoy the company of NATO nerds. I’m a comedy nerd. (Laughter.) I was – I was far too well behaved to be the class clown, but I was the guy at the party with the two other guys doing Monty Python impersonations. You know, it’s that exhausting guy. Yeah, sorry. (Laughter.)
And it only became presented as an option, as a possibility, at school. I did my undergraduate at Harvard. I say undergraduate around distinguished and lettered folks, so people can guess, oh, I wonder where he did his Ph.D. (Laughter.) That was the end of it. (Laughter.) But I did do my undergrad there. You could use that trick. (Laughter.) But I had the opportunity there to write on a comedy magazine, a humor magazine, “The Lampoon.” And that’s where I first met – first of all, it was where I met my tribe, which is what any lucky young person gets to do at some point. So like, oh, I’m one of these. And the sensibility and the camaraderie, that was my, oh, I’m this.
Didn’t occur to me as a career path. But after a year, some people went and they got jobs. And I went, well, they’re brilliant. Of course, that one’s going to get work at “SNL” or “The Simpsons”. And then the next year, a few more people graduated. And I was like, well, I’m better than that guy. (Laughter.) So I’d at least give it a shot. And yeah, similarly, came out on a lark to Los Angeles to give it a shot. Thought I’d go home and be a lousy lawyer who was kind of funny. And instead, you know, came out, was very fortunate, and continued to find – so I get paid to write jokes, Harvard, man – trying to think what other privilege I could get out here. (Laughter.) I won Powerball three times. But not, like, big ones. Like 140 –
Dr. McInnis: So, like, a five buck – a five buck –
Mr. Silveri: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Dr. McInnis: And no vehicular manslaughter.
Mr. Silveri: None. None.
Ms. Levinson: Well done. Well done. (Laughter.)
Dr. McInnis: And it’s funny, when talk about finding your tribe. Like, so for me, I was an intern on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And yeah, I was, like, what, 20 years old. And, like, I was with these professional staff members. And they were hilarious. And I was like, these are my people. Like, because it wasn’t just, like, talking about these issues as, like, cyborg, you know, like, rah. It was being able to contemplate like – and just, like, be people with each other. And I was like, this is what I want to do. It’s the people, right? The people that get you into this.
Mr. Silveri: Right. Absolutely.
Dr. McInnis: So particularly, LeAnne, so speaking of stories and origins, or how – I’d love – like, because you were, like, literally in, like, the belly of the beast, as it were, for summit stuffs. What’s the summit like? What was preparing for the summit like? What was – what were some of the things that you experienced as you were herding all the cats and, like, not sleeping, and, you know? (Laughs.) Over to you. (Laughs.)
Ms. Howard: Well, one, it’s a massive team. And it’s a team of teams from different departments and agencies, from the Secret Service working their magic around Washington, D.C. to keep everyone safe. It’s no one person that pulls this off. We all have different roles.
From the policy side, which is the side that I came out of, it was focusing on what is most important at this point in time. And summits get distilled into declarations or communique. And they tell the world what our leaders, through consensus, decided. And these become marks by paragraph number that says, these are the things that are most important, these are the things that we need to reiterate, or these are the things that are new. So while we have upwards of 60 different entities or headquarters under this giant NATO constellation, just about every one of them can trace what they do and when they were established to a declaration or a communique. That’s what policy does. And it’s pretty impactful. But that’s the piece of paper that the NATO nerds care about. (Laughs.)
So beyond that, though, I think what’s most compelling to me, and what I saw the most up close this process is the fabric and the quilt of people from the different countries come together. I was at the political level, the policy level. this time. But prior to this I worked at the military level, at the lower levels. And it really does rhyme. It’s people who all care so deeply about what we’re doing. And you find agreement at bilateral levels, multilateral levels, and then you bring it up when you can, or you build off of it, and you iterate.
But these relationships, we’ve been building on them for 75 years. This interoperability, this willingness to come together, to be stronger, and more effective, and more unified so that the bad guys out there realize that they have to face all of us, and we mean what we say. That, to me – the people, the relationships, and the actions or the commitment to take action that comes with those people, is what’s so powerful in the summit. And it’s the manifestation.
So we got to host it in Washington, D.C. Not that I’m a big Washington D.C. person. (Laughter.) Second tour here. But really, the treaty was signed by 12 allies in 1949 in Mellon Auditorium. This beautiful hall. And we started the summit again there this year, Kathleen joined us, just this moving ceremony. I was almost in tears, and I remember our first concept notes talking about what we were going to do. But I think everyone was moved in that building, because it means so much to all of us who work for and through NATO and continue to do so. So, again, summits – they are a big deal for all of us.
Dr. McInnis: Well, and what’s also fun and powerful for me was walking around the summit venues and literally running into friends, colleagues I’ve seen over the years, and we’re all connecting again. So, it’s the – so it’s underscored to me, how important that human connection is for making it all work and really believing that, yeah, we are all in this together. It’s super cool.
So I’m going to turn to the trip, which is also super fun and connecting in all sorts of ways. But, like, my question to you guys, like, what went through your head when I was, like, hey, want to go to NATO? (Laughs.) Like, uh?
Ms. Levinson: Taking us back – because we started this conversation almost two years ago. And this was when I was – you were so gracious to interview me for your podcast, which – and we had a wonderful time. And I thought, well, this was a great conversation, it ends now, but I didn’t want to lose you. And when we wrapped on the podcast, that was your question. You said, what would you think about putting together a group of your friends at a showrunner level to come talk to NATO about their storytelling?
And what followed was me reaching out to a group of friends who, every single one of them without hesitation – oh, one did hesitate. I texted him, and he called to make sure that this was actually me. (Laughter.) He was, like, I’ve never been invited to NATO before, and I just wanted to – that was Marqui. All of them said yes immediately. I think what went through my head was we, by nature of our jobs, have a dwindling, but still vast audience, in comparison to other outlets, right? We really take that seriously. And being able to – our job is also to explore other worlds, study characters. D.C. is fascinating for that. (Laughter.)
This trip was also an opportunity to really immerse ourselves in a world that we weren’t familiar with. And I think – I have a friend who’s a composer and a conductor, Edwin Outwater, so I will give him credit for the – what I’m about to say. He always likes to say, I’m a genius with a lot to learn. Our job is to be dumped into worlds and sound like we know everything about them. I think all of us had a working knowledge of NATO, but clearly not a deep understanding of it.
And an opportunity to get – I don’t – we had no idea the access that we were going to get, at all. It was extraordinary the doors that were opened for us because of CSIS, and you and your relationships, and Dan’s relationships. I don’t even think we knew what we were getting into, but we all said yes immediately. Because it was an opportunity to broaden our knowledge. And that’s what we do as storytellers, right? You’re only as good as what you know.
Dr. McInnis: Mmm hmm. Scott, what –
Mr. Silveri: Marqui wasn’t the only one who questioned the reality. (Laughter.)
Ms. Levinson: Yeah, we a lengthy text conversation.
Mr. Silveri: I really did think it was a joke. I thought it was –
Dr. McInnis: Really?
Mr. Silveri:nOh yeah. No, I thought it was a weird joke, and not too funny. (Laughter.) But –
Ms. Levinson: I kill people for a living –
Mr. Silveri: Yeah, she’s a drama writer, yeah, exactly. (Laughter.) But it was surprising, unlikely, but it felt like an adventure. It felt like the selfish parts of the adventure part. (Background noise.) The – this is, I don’t –
Dr. McInnis: I’m doing the same thing, you know. It’s musical.
Mr. Silveri: I bought the blue blazer to do my Washington cosplay thing. (Laughter.) Like, how do you guys do this? All right. I’ll just – I’ll just hold them up here. This doesn’t look weird, right?
Dr. McInnis: Yeah, that’s totally fine. (Laughs.)
Ms. Levinson: That’s what they all do. (Laughter.)
Mr. Silveri: So I was – I was down for the adventure. I mean, I spoke to our friend Sam, one of our colleagues here. We were talking about, you know, in a post-COVID world just a novelty of novelty, you know? Just how few opportunities as our worlds became so very small. But, you know, as somebody who has a working – had a working layman’s understanding of NATO, I certainly believed in the power of the alliance. I didn’t know as much about the processes or the people. That was what was revelatory about the trip. And we can talk more about that.
But I believe in the power of it. And thought, well, this – if there’s some small way I might be able to contribute, even if it’s as little as reflecting NATO back at itself a little while – I have very little to teach, but I can share my impressions. And you know what we do for a living, it’s high on passion, it’s high on fun, but it can be light on meaning from time to time. And that was the more profound – even more than the adventure, it felt meaningful. And it felt like a chance to –
Ms. Levinson: Substantive.
Mr. Silveri: Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. McInnis: So what did you – sort of picking up on the thread that you just put down – what did you learn about NATO that you didn’t know before the trip?
Mr. Silveri: Well, if we’re going to talk about what I didn’t know it’s going to be a long panel. (Laughter.)
Ms. Levinson: How long have you got? (Laughter.)
Mr. Silveri: I mean, did you know Article Five the one time it was employed – there were facts –
Ms. Levinson: Yeah, there were factoids.
Mr. Silveri: Oh, OK.
Ms. Levinson: No, do it.
Dr. McInnis: Yeah.
Mr. Silveri: No, the one time it was employed was to come to the defense of the United – that was eye opening for me. I’ll be honest, I was ignorant as to some of the member countries. So I knew they were countries. (Laughter.) But, you know, I’m reminded I’m having the same experience hearing you speak, LeAnne, because it’s – the bigger experience, the bigger eye opener, was the kind of person that we came in contact with again and again. The sincerity, the belief in mission because, again, to make contrast to our, you know, company town, there’s a lot of cynicism.
And I thought I was walking into a bureaucracy that would be rife with cynicism, that would – that would, you know, every water cooler would be people shaking their heads and, do you believe it? But there’s a belief in the mission from the top down. And we had the opportunity to spend time with the top.
Ms. Levinson: Yeah, that was our first meeting.
Mr. Silveri: Exactly, yeah.
Ms. Levinson: Our first meeting on day one. (Laughter.)
Dr. McInnis: Yeah. We literally just got off the plane.
Mr. Silveri: Right, yeah.
Ms. Levinson: Jetlagged, confused.
Mr. Silveri: I’m going to say it was about 4:15 a.m., was that meeting, it felt like? Yeah.
Ms. Levinson: Yeah.
Dr. McInnis: Yeah. And, just, like, why don’t you meet the NATO secretary general? OK? (Laughs.)
Mr. Silveri: Right. Yeah. So one of you guys forward – you, Scott. (Laughter.) And it was – but, yeah, the quality of those people at every – on the military side, on the policy side – it was, you know, our friend – our friend, Kevin, with whom we spent a lot of time. I see that sincerity and the belief in doing the right thing, and a fight worth having. And it’s, honestly, the first time I’ve ever seen behind the curtain of a large organization of power and liked what I saw. You know, it wasn’t disappointing. It was seeing how the sausage is made and wanting to order more sausage. Which is not – which is not my normal experience.
Dr. McInnis: Right? So –
Ms. Levinson: Well, he took my number-one answer.
Mr. Silveri: That’s what I do. (Laughter.)
Ms. Levinson: I was like, is he going to stop? (Laughter.) Because we had a premeeting, and he just took all – (laughter). No, I will say I was having a conversation with someone earlier today. It’s a bit off topic, but that’s, you know, the joy of this table. Which is, you know, I’m constantly looking for the adults in the world. And as a mom, and trying to explain to my kids why the world is the way that it is, I’m looking for the grown-up in the room. And I lost my mom eight years ago to cancer. It was our first bout with that. And I’m in the medical world looking for a grown-up who has answers, and realizing it’s just people struggling to find them.
I think if I – because it’s private, right? There’s no one sitting in this room with us, and we’re not being recorded. So it’s super – (laughter) – no, but I feel like we are at a moment in history politically where everyone outside of this city is confused, and angry, and frustrated, looking for a grown up to step up and act like one. I was astounded, from the moment we landed in Brussels, to walk into that building and feel like that was a competent, well-run machine, by people who genuinely care.
And also people – and I – people who are watching this who work with NATO are going to say, you know, we have the same hurdles. And it is a bureaucracy. And it is a government. And there are – it is what it is. But I was really surprised by their openness to our presence, not just the access but actually being open to – and this pivots us into a slightly different conversation – but just being open to changing the conversation.
As you said, I think our town and the political world have a lot of similarities, in that they are very small bubbles. And we speak a very specific language in each bubble. We have fewer acronyms, but – (laughter) – it is – there are –
Dr. McInnis: We do have lots of them.
Ms. Levinson: You do. And you were kind enough to slow – when we looked like deers in the headlights, when we would get three in one sentence. (Laughter.) Cad you break this down, because we’re fast learners.
Mr. Silveri: I want an acronym for saying there are too many acronyms. (Laughter.)
Ms. Levinson: I think after the week, being able to hear from numerous people, that we would walk in – and we came with respect, we came with openness. We’re not looking to do anyone’s jobs for them. We’re just trying to have a conversation. And that multiple people would hear our questions and stop and say, I haven’t thought of it that way before. And that, to me, felt like a successful trip.
Mr. Silveri: Right. Yeah.
Dr. McInnis: That’s exactly right. I mean, because we – NATO nerds, we dive into the technospeak so quickly, which is working on the issue. For me, what was amazing and powerful and inspiring was taking a step back and letting emotion lead, right? Like in seeing the world – seeing NATO through your eyes. I was – I mean, we cried so much on that trip.
Ms. Levinson: There was a lot of crying. (Laughter.)
Dr. McInnis: There was a lot of crying, because of the inspiration, and just being connected to a part of myself that I parked, right? Because the work we do is so logical, and rational, and you’re in it. This notion – in NATO, we talk about Article Five, and deterrence, and defense. But realizing, through you guys, that connection is powerful and inspiring. And that’s why we do what we do. We want to be connected as democracies together. We want to feel together like we’re creating the space for our populations to live their lives, right? I just – I hadn’t connected with that. And so I’m very grateful for that opportunity. I learned so much from you guys.
Ms. Howard: Could I throw some jargon on top?
Dr. McInnis: Yes. (Laughter.)
Ms. Levinson: Please do. I missed it. It’s been at least 10 minutes. (Laughter.)
Ms. Howard: So we covered Article Five. I am a big believer in Article Three.
Dr. McInnis: And three comes before five, right?
Ms. Howard: Yeah. Four is convening folks because something’s happening, and we need to talk. But Article Three is every nation has the responsibility to create their own resilience in order to resist attack. And what that means today is societies who understand what’s happening at a level where they can appreciate, we need to be strong together. Because there are cracks that folks are trying to just insert themselves into. And so for me, you being here is part of Article Three. It’s part of a way to better inform folks.
I could have brought my kids here today, and they would have been thrilled, but they’re NATO nerds too at age nine and 11 because they went to schools with kids from all over the world. They played sports with kids from all these different places. And they believe in it. They believe that we’re stronger together. But most of our friends and colleagues across the country don’t have that opportunity. They don’t get to touch it. They don’t get to feel it. And so if we can help them realize that this is – this is how important it is to have friends that are always with you. I think that –
Dr. McInnis: And they can feel it, right? And share the feeling.
Ms. Howard: Right, that’s – that is –
Dr. McInnis: It’s just, like, a really – like, this hasn’t ever existed in human history. Are you freaking kidding me? This is amazing, right?
Ms. Howard: Right? I mean, we’re competing with the Greeks from about 2,000 years ago. But this is a very long, long, lasting, strong alliance. (Laughter.)
Dr. McInnis: Yeah. OK, fair. (Laughs.) But what moments – I’m going to turn you guys first, then I’m going to pivot to you. But what moments during the trip, or during this trip, we’re most impact –
Ms. Levinson: Are you going to make us cry?
Dr. McInnis: Totally. We’re all going to cry.
Ms. Levinson: I could tell, just by your tone.
Dr. McInnis: Where’s Alexis, where’s the tissues? Yeah, what was the most impactful experience for you? Or the moment, or the – I’m going to ask you that same question, but about the summit – or the preparation for the summit.
Ms. Levinson: It’s interesting, because it’s kind of, in a way, like when we came home what we told our friends, or what we told our family. It’s what sticks with you, what is the sticky stuff? And it comes – it all came down to the human story. And I will say, Amanda, who was on our group as well, always brought us back to that, because it’s honestly where we, writers, thrive, right? Is making things relatable and moving from the large story to the personal story. And so, I will do it without crying. There was,
Dr. McInnis: I got a sugar packet that you can dab your eyes with.
Ms. Levinson: Thank you, dab. Delicately dab. There was a day – NATO loves its photo ops. So, we were getting a lot of pictures taken at all times. Writers are not meant to be in front of the camera. (Laughter.) But we had just been meeting, I don’t recall with who, and we were at headquarters and taking a picture. And Kathleen, like, grabbed my arm and pointed across the room to where a handful of Ukrainian veterans were standing. And it was the Invictus Games that they had been at.
That is something that – I think, that we came on this trip knowing was going to be the struggle, which is as Americans we live removed from the conflict. We are an educated bunch. We do actually, I almost said read the news and I almost held a newspaper, which really dates myself. (Laughter.) We follow the news. We are aware of things. But we – unlike when you’re in Brussels, in Prague and you feel war because of the geography. It’s so close that you’re actually – but that was in the same room.
And without hesitation – you led the charge. Without even thinking about the language barrier, or without anything. We just ran over to these guys and just said, we’d love to meet you. And we would like to thank you. And the conversation is between people. So they were, of course, asking, why are you here? Which was a hard question to answer. (Laughter.) But –
Dr. McInnis: There might have been a lack of coffee at that point.
Ms. Levinson: There was, yeah. But two of the –
Mr. Silveri: That’s why I went to them. I thought they might have coffee. (Laughter.)
Ms. Levinson: Stick with Scott. Scott Silveri. (Laughter.) But missing limbs, missing – the fella I spoke to was this hulking man who was probably 6’3, 6’4, who had lost his eye. And we – luckily, they had a translator with them, and that we had a chance to talk to them about, why are you here, why are you? And it was just two people having a conversation. And just a few years ago, it would have been a very different conversation. But as we were leaving, because they had to go, and he said to me, you should come to Ukraine. You’d love it. It’s beautiful.
And I got around the corner and just lost it, because it made it so personal. That’s his home. You know, these are people who are throwing soup cans to defend their home. And we can all relate to that. And we weren’t looking to do this trip to come home with a TV series, or a movie, or a – but we are sponges by nature. And so, we take those stories with us, and they can’t help but seep into – eventually I will write something that includes that guy. And I think about him a lot. So that was – that was rather impactful, yeah.
Dr. McInnis: Yeah.
Scott.
Mr. Silveri: Yeah. it was – it was removing the war from the realm of abstraction through meeting people. And there were a number of times that happened. When we were at NATO headquarters, it was – there were a lot of briefings. There was a lot of information. Amazing access, impressive people. And I felt like my role there was to sort of fake it till I made it, in terms of the intellectual bandwidth. And then when we moved to Prague, the emotion of it was really overwhelming.
We met some Ukrainian film students who – we were just talking to them as creatives. And here are the projects I’ve done. Here’s – and, you know, I got into conversation with one young woman and asked, so what’s your next thing? She says, well, I have another year in the program, but I’ve done all I can with the camera. I’m going to go home and fight. And, you know, with the knowledge that we now have about what that fight is, that’s – yeah, it was overwhelming.
And similarly, when we went to Rada for Europe, that was – yeah, particularly. We had the pleasure, honor to meet a number of folks involved with, you know, the resistance from the outside. And we spoke with a gentleman, named Pavel, whose wife Alsu is a, you know, Russian born, Russian American journalist, working for Radio Free Europe, who returned home and is now imprisoned. And this is –
Dr. McInnis: She was there to take care of her mother, her sick mom.
Mr. Silveri: Right. So that’s her sin, that’s her crime, caring about her mother. And is now separated from him and from their two children, whose – and the children happen to be the same age. So, it’s – you know, it’s one thing when you see every once in a while in a – and then just the other night on this trip, when we met Yulia – I’m butchering everybody’s name. But she’s a Ukrainian medic who, you know, had just been decorated for saving a thousand lives in the field, and had also been in captivity.
And, you know, we tried delicately to ask a little bit about that experience. And she said, I don’t – I don’t think I have the words in English to explain it, but I also don’t have the words in Ukrainian to explain it. And it was really, really heartbreaking, and so very human. So, it’s, you know, taking these things that we hear about, and strategies, and policies, and making them human. That was the – that was the most remarkable and affecting part.
Ms. Levinson: And can I just say one thing about Radio Free Europe, that I thought of after we got home again too, which brings it back kind of the theme of NATO. Which is these are writers, meeting with people who do what we do and are imprisoned for it. And we go home and can come up with any idea that we want. We’ll pitch it. We’ll sell it. We’ll make our shows. We’ll do – because we are safe to do so. And that comes back to who makes us safe. And SecGen said that in the first meeting we had, which is it’s a deterrence so that you can do what you do. And Sam, another member of our delegation, said peace is a verb. It is active. You have to protect yourselves in order to be able to sit down at a computer and write what we do. So, it felt very personal on that level as well.
Dr. McInnis: So, LeAnne, anything with the summit, or?
Ms. Howard: So many things. I was in Ukraine slightly before Russia invaded Ukraine. And I was working in Belgium in February of ’22. We were actually in Prague. We were supposed to be meeting with Ukrainians and Georgians to discuss resilience and legislative changes to help them ensure that they had the structures they needed, should they need to resist quickly. This is just months before. And everything evolved so quickly. And we’re all doing our best to support them. So, for me, for the summit, on one hand it’s that big celebration of the 75th, and how thrilled I am to see the rest of the world really realize that this is important. NATO is stronger than ever. It’s unified. And it’s through intentionality that we got there.
This was not autopilot. This was a lot of people realizing the value and really having to explain that value to get there. But at that Ukraine echelon of this, because that is one of the two biggest topics of this summit in the policy declaration. I think we came a long way from F-16s and Patriot systems. But beyond that, we got funds for women who were serving on the frontlines in Ukraine to have body armor that fits them. And just from the small building blocks to the big thing.
My leadership right now, Jake Sullivan, gave a speech. And he said, you know, when we first started talking about this summit, we did not know what the situation would be in July. So, four or five months ago, we were going, what will the world look like when we’re holding this summit? And Congress came through, the money came through, our allies and partners are coming through with systems, with money, with humanitarian aid. And Ukraine’s going to fight on, and we’re going to keep supporting them. And to me, that is the story of this summit, right?
There’s this irreversible path to becoming an ally, because it’s their choice. The door’s open to whomever. We’re not making anyone join, but they’re choosing. They want to join this for the security, the safety, and the stability it brings their people. But there’s this political dimension, this military dimension, this financial dimension. And we put them together so that it was cohered, and it gives Ukraine the most we can give them to continue to sustain this fight, and to protect, and to preserve their country.
So, for me, it’s just – it’s overwhelming when I think about it, from those little points in time that got us to where we are right now. And I do think it’s a success story. Where Ukraine is right now is a success story. There’s so much more to do, but it could have fifteen different ways from February of ’22. And they are fighting on. And we will continue to support them. So, I’m sorry I’m getting a little emotional. I am not a comedy writer. (Laughter.)
Dr. McInnis: Have a sugar packet. (Laughter.)
Ms. Howard: But the other point I think is just really important to make – and this is my NATO nerd coming out – but working on the new defense plans at NATO. In 2020, the structure of the military forces in NATO were designed for expeditionary operations. We’re all supposed to be able to do the same thing, and we’re all supposed to take turns, and go when we were called because there was a crisis. We had to redesign every plan, and all of our national forces, and our NATO structures to go: What does it mean to deter and defend in a large-scale situation in Europe again?
This is massive. The change. And watching every ally step up and recommit their forces, redesign their forces, and rapidly change these, and them design them together in plans that NATO cohered. It – again, it sounds nerdy, but I couldn’t imagine it working as well as it has. And bringing this power – so it’s not just words on paper, but it’s true capabilities of 32 countries together. That is the other big accomplishment that was solidified at this summit.
Dr. McInnis: I mean, it’s – yeah, it’s like a totally dorky, nerdy thing to be like – but it’s so important. That’s how these systems were driving – like, driving forward.
Ms. Howard: Yeah. Who’s in charge? Who’s going to be there first? Who’s going to be there first? Who’s going to be there next? What enablers support? These men and women on the ground –
Dr. McInnis: No more Leroy Jenkins, like – I don’t know –
Ms. Howard: And that’s where you get all the interesting little stories, because we’re lacing together people – as we mentioned before we started recording – you know, the Slovakian and Frenchman on my team came up with new ideas for how we should engineer different units. It was just – it was such a thrill to see, to have people bring their best ideas together, as we worked through these plans. And now they’re –
Ms. Levinson: We could learn from them.
Mr. Silveri: We could.
Dr. McInnis: We’ll have a show whenever. You just get us on set, we’ll just –
Ms. Levinson: Yeah, exactly.
Dr. McInnis: We’ll deter and defend – (laughter) –
Ms. Howard: But a lot of fun along the way. I mean, we worked hard. But we all, I think, just truly enjoyed learning from each other. And it made it fun. We had our own little mini-NATO Olympics, you know, all sorts of activities to keep us pumping and keep us working.
Mr. Silveri: Well, that’s the beauty – it’s beautiful. It’s the value of organic diversity, you know, and diversity of opinion and of background. And it’s wonderful to see it in action. It’s inspiring.
Dr. McInnis: Did you walk away with any ideas or concepts of what NATO’s story needs to be, looking into the future, right? So, we got, you know, celebrating 75 years. That’s amazing. But I look at the world and I’m thinking, oh God, we’re going to need this for a long time. But what’s – were there nuggets that resonated with you, or you think would be the building blocks for how we communicate or even design strategy around what NATO needs to be in the future, or why we need NATO in the future?
Ms. Levinson: It’s a really – it’s a phenomenal question, and a difficult question. Hence, the silence. Because I think that’s what we got from everyone, which was: It’s extraordinary that it’s lasted for 75 years. When you actually think about all the players and everything that you just discussed going well, it should not have worked, right?
Dr. McInnis: Right? Right? There’s a million ways this could have gone wrong. Yeah.
Ms. Levinson: Exactly, like any good marriage. (Laughter.) But
Ms. Howard: Marriage times 32.
Ms. Levinson: Right? (Laughter.) And new members. Everyone was fearful about if this gets bigger, how’s this going to work? It’s, like, it’s planning a perfect dinner party. But now the question is looking ahead and not looking behind. And I think I can only speak from my perspective and conversations that we’ve had too about, like, how we could be helpful in a small way. And that really looking at it, like, the way – the way you tell – storytelling changes the story. So how can –
Dr. McInnis: That is so profound, by the way, just to – I’m sorry, to interrupt. But storytelling changes the story, right? The way we tell these stories, the way – the things that we include in these stories, the way these characters develop changes how we see the world, right?
Ms. Levinson: On a daily – and I think our view was coming in specifically from an American standpoint. And how can we reach more people with this story? And how can that shift the perception? Because the more people who understand moving forward, not just the – and the NATO nerd stuff is fascinating. But also that this is a – that this is – (laughter) – no seriously. I’m like, Article three? Tell me more. (Laughter.) But the coming together, that this is a time where the world needs that story. And is actively, as I said, they’re looking for the grownups. But they’re also looking for a positive. And NATO is a positive at the moment. And I feel like that story is not being told very loud at the moment. And again, I will say to each other you’re telling it very well, but it’s exciting to me to think about how we can expand that and then change the perception in a larger audience.
Mr. Silveri: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it’s important to help shatter the notion of our going it alone. You know, that’s got to be a big part of the story we get out there. I mean, there’s talk of, you know, NATO – I understood it to be a military alliance, but the military was in big letters and alliance was smaller. And the – you know, what’s shared with all of our fellow member nations is essential to our – to our shared survival. I think there’s something dangerous that happens in – you know, it happens every four years where, in a political campaign, someone says, we’re a laughingstock. You believe this? We’ve got to change. And it happens over and over again, regardless of the party.
And I think that’s a sort of back door to isolationism, in its way. We will say, like, oh, we don’t – we don’t matter. And I was shocked when we were there to see the appetite for American partnership and American leadership. So, I think we can take a look at ourselves and, you know, embrace that role, and know that, no, we’re not a laughingstock. We’re wanted. And I think we’re essential. But it’s just getting away from that tribalism a little bit. And we’re tribal creatures by nature. And my hope would be that we could still take care of us, but maybe expand who the “we” is, you know what I mean? Who the “us” is. And value our partners, and the value that they – and understand the value that they bring us as well. It’s not just us paying in. It’s we are great benefactors from this – from this partnership.
Ms. Howard: Well, and NATO protects our economic life.
Mr. Silveri: Of course, yeah, yeah.
Ms. Howard: That’s our number-one trade partner, Europe. And we take it for granted. Everything we’re trading back and forth is safe because underwritten by the security of the alliance. If only we had that in every ocean. I mean, it’s just something wonderful.
Mr. Silveri: No, if self-interest were your only concern, it would demand, yeah, a NATO.
Dr. McInnis: Well, LeAnne, Scott, Chris, thank you for being a part of this panel discussion today. Thank you for being on this team exploring this wacky idea of screenwriters to NATO, but, like, realizing that there is power to story. And there’s power in having an empathy-driven approach to strategy. And that there’s power in doing all of this together. So, I’m so grateful that you are my friends and that we’ve been on this journey together. Thank you for joining us today.
And for our online audience, there are lots of things, poke around on the CSIS website if you’re interested in all things NATO nerdery. There’s lots of content there. But all sorts of other things as well. But thank you for joining us. Thank you to our studio audience for being here. Have a great afternoon.
Ms. Howard: Thank you.
Ms. Levinson: Thank you. Total pleasure
Mr. Silveri: Thank you. (Applause.)
(END.)