In this special CCU episode, #151, we bring you the audio of a conversation that J. Stephen Morrison held with Dr. Ashish Jha on September 27. How is the bivalent vaccine launch going? How does the White House navigate the wildly divergent realities of the pandemic? We are living a tale of two cities: the drive to normality, built on major achievements that have lowered the threat of severe illness and death, versus persistent danger and uncertainty, and the multiple accumulating barriers to action: the fiscal, political and technological impasses, and our frayed institutions. What are his reflections, six months into the job, on the role of the White House Coordinator? Will the White House exit an emergency context in early 2023? Give a listen!