The Future of the Organization of American States

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Ryan C. Berg: In the name of the Center for Strategic Studies, CSIS, in English, it’s a pleasure to welcome our guests and our audience. My name is Ryan Berg. I’m a Senior Fellow from the Americas Program of CSIS. And today it’s an honor to interview Luis Almagro Lemes, the General Secretary of the Organization of American States. I want to thank the general secretary for taking the time to open and have an honest dialogue with us in regard to the future of the Organization of American States. Before we start, I want to share some instructions. The length of the event will be one hour. During the second half we’re going to have time for questions and answers. And if you want to ask a question please put it in the chat, and also the link that we have for chat. The event has simultaneous interpretation from Spanish into English. And on the screen, you will find a symbol that says “interpretation.” That’s where you have to select the language of your preference. (Continues in English.) Today we will have simultaneous interpretation. At the bottom of your Zoom screen please click the globe button that says “interpretation,” and then select the language you wish to listen in. (Continues through interpreter.) Good morning to everyone today. And I just want to say that OEA is the only organization in the region that has 35 countries of the hemisphere. The Organization of American States was conformed to be able to have all the members and have an order of peace and justice and promote solidarity and strengthen the collaboration and integrity and independence. The Organization of American States is conformed to be able to be able to attend four very important areas – democracy, human rights, security and economic development and sustainability. The mission and integration is one of the factors that makes the Organization of American States the right one for the regional agenda, and to be able to generate efficient solutions collaborating different governments from different countries that have different challenges. And it goes further away from the geographical areas. One of the biggest challenges of the American – of the Organization of American States is the threats against democracy. Venezuela, Nicaragua, and Cuba have been attacked by dictatorships. The other big challenge is the one regarding security. And today the region is threatened by COVID and other epidemics that attack citizens, like organized crime and the influence of other powers like China, Russia, and Iran. The Organization of American States have to respond with original agenda that is sufficient, and it has to deal with the collaboration of all different countries in the hemisphere. We also recently have seen that the Organization of American States has questions from different members of the same organization. The dialogue that we’re going to have today is going to talk about this regional agenda, and also what is the organized relevance of all these challenges. We’re also going to be able to ask questions of Mr. Almagro in regard to what is the purpose of his term in the Organization of American States that will end in 2025. So I’m going to talk a little bit about the background of Luis Almagro Lemes. He is the 10th – number 10th in the list of general secretaries. And he was selected in 2020. He started his period in 2015. And before being elected as general secretary he was the minister of foreign affairs in Uruguay for five years, and he was a senate of the republic for one year. He also worked for 23 years in foreign affairs for his country. And he was stationed in different places like Iran, Germany and China, who knows him well. They know that he defends democracy, human rights, and also social inclusion. Different resources that I’d also mention that he loves poetry, chess, and, unfortunately for me to say, but he loves the Chicago Bears. And I love the Packers. So we feel very, very happy to have you with us today. So on behalf of CSIS and on my own behalf, it’s a pleasures to welcome you here today. We’re going to start then with some questions. General Secretary, which would be the two or three biggest challenges that our region faces right now? And in that framework, what are the priorities of the Organization of American States to those challenges?

Sec Gen. Luis Almagro: Well, thank you so much, Ryan, for your kind words. The challenges are actually four, each one of the pillars – democracy, human rights, security, and financial development. We have specific challenges in each one of these. And this makes original agenda – or, conforms original agenda. At this point, each one of these pillars and challenges are basically under attack because of the situation that we’re currently in because of COVID-19 in regards to the institution, in regards to our health and the systematic function in our societies. The pandemic really put every single country through a great challenge. But we’ve had several difficulties because of this pandemic around the world. Eight percent of the population and 40 percent of the victims and more than 30 percent of the cases – we really have a problem. In regards to the institutions, the health systems around the world, but also the way in which we socialize – and the way in which we socialize is the one of the engines, and why this pandemic became so big. And this is why this is a main concern, but the Organization of American States, they say that should be in charge of this health problems. But there is an organization that is in charge of health issues and in regards to vaccination, which is the Pan-American Health Organization. And we do have to help deal with this, and how is it we’re going to coordinate vaccination around the hemisphere. Because this is something that is going to allow to have a better interaction in the hemisphere. Democracy has challenges. We have dictatorships in the hemisphere. You talked about this before. These dictatorships are not – or, are causing humanitarian crisis, immigration crisis, human rights crisis, crimes. So that’s something that we have to deal with first, because the countries that are under these dictatorships are being affected. And that’s going to affect other countries in the hemisphere. A humanitarian crisis, like the one we have in Venezuela, or immigration crisis, has really affected all the other countries in the region. And we need to keep observing elections because we need to have more transparent elections and more just elections. And we need to also look at the way that the institutions work. They have to be more transparent. We need to keep fighting against corruption. And those are things that we need to keep working on. In regards to financial development, we need to reactive the social and financial actors after the pandemic. And we have great challenges. The first one is to get vaccines in the hemisphere. And this is going to allow our countries to be able to reactivate businesses and socialization in our hemisphere. We also have to attack the global climate. And we need to be committed because we need to do something against global climate. Our countries are being devastated by the global climate year after year because of tropical storms, hurricanes. And we are the first border. We have to rebuild infrastructure every year. And we lose tons of products in our hemisphere, housing that we have to rebuild, lots of problems that we have socially because of the effects that are devastating by global climate. We also need to reactivate the economy towards them, because we don’t really interact as human beings anymore. We don’t travel anymore. So in two years I’ve basically left once the U.S. So countries, like our countries that depend on tourism, have been affected. And we need to create solutions in how to repair all of this. We also have security problems – organized crime, narcotrafficking. And this affects democracy but also violence. We have a verry violent continent. And 40 percent of our deaths in our hemisphere happen here. And this is something that is devastating to our hemisphere. So we have to work on this, and have real solutions to these problems and challenges. And this is something that we have been talking about, and I’ve mentioned this before. We need something like Plan Colombia to be able to have a peaceful plan. So we’re talking about something like this in Central America, to be able to eliminate violence, the way that we are seeing it today in Central American countries, and that also affect other regions in regards to these conditions because violence and organized crime is devastating. We also have to talk about immigration that is caused not only by dictatorships, but also by insecurity and global climate. In regards to immigration, we need to fight this in providing more rights to migrants. And we also have to provide better conditions to these immigrants. And we also have to provide them with better living conditions in their countries. So, as you see, we have big challenges, great challenges that we have to take care of. These are challenges that are a priority. And we need to attack them at the same time through different regional institutions, and also supporting each other, all of us, as members. And there’s a saying that says the Organization of American States will be whatever the countries wanted us to be. Well, countries, member countries, also need to really assimilate the concept of transformation in regards to the needs that their countries have.

Dr. Berg: Thank you, Secretary General. It’s a very wide, full agenda. There are countries like Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba who are consolidated dictatorships. And where clearly, we can see evidence of systematic abuses in the issues of human rights. How is the OAS tackling this regression of the democratic process? And how do you see the situation in El Salvador? And what could be done in that situation?

Sec. Gen. Almagro: Well, I did start talking about dictatorships in the last question, and the effects of dictatorships. Dictatorships in our country are basically passing models. That’s the main problem. These are dictatorships that are bothersome due to their lack of capacity to solve productive economic crises. And then the crisis is that they provoke on matters of human rights. So we have to tackle the negative effects of these dictatorships. We have to resolve basic issues of having access to food and medications, and in many cases trying to work with the civil society to generate spaces that allow solutions. Now, also, we seem to forget that the first conference of donors for migration of Venezuelans was started by OAS. It’s a missionary movement that stimulated possibility of different countries to really tackle the issue of immigration. It is so they would have the capacity to provide services to each migrant. Our countries are developing countries. So it’s not easy for developing countries to absorb migration that, what, up to 6 million people. It’s very complex. Services like education, food, security – in our countries they were already lacking in many cases. And when you add this migration dynamic like we’re referring to, it’s worse. And we also have to tackle issues of human rights regarding dictatorships. This is why there was a report prepared for the OAS regarding systematic violations in Venezuela. And it was presented in international court. And also several countries reported those violations perpetrated by the Venezuelan government. And they definitely showed special value. And it’s something that started without much support and ended up being consolidated as a resource for victims and families of victims of justice – or injustice. We have to strengthen civil society that wants democracy in their countries. We cannot leave them alone. They have to be supported by the international community. And the inter-American system has to walk along with them. We have the OAS, the secretariat, with reports. And therefore, strengthening those reports that the civil society is letting the world know. And also, we are trying to strengthen the economic, social, cultural rights of the people as part of the rule of law work in those countries. These are axis that the organization is definitely supporting. Now, regarding the issue of El Salvador, it’s something that we have communications about. Those communications have been available to all country – all countries from the beginning. And they referred to the rule of law, and the function of each institution, and the issues of, you know, fighting corruption. And this is an issue that eventually will be tackled by the countries, or not. Sometimes the organization is only referred to as the secretary general. And we can see it specifically on the issue of, like, Nicaragua and Venezuela. The many resolutions and once we have the different political organizations at general assembly, these are the bodies that are able to make the decisions.

Dr. Berg: Secretary General, I’d like to remain on this issue of Central America. Central America is still at the tail end of human development and economic development. Now, having said that, the countries from the Northern Triangle have been the focus of the general – of the Biden administration. Would you support a Plan Central America, a Central American plan?

Sec. Gen. Almagro: Yes, I do support a Plan Central America. This is what I was trying to refer to as well. I think we have to tackle a very – a main principle, which is that structural issue, which affects very seriously the development of judicial and economic certainty, and the certainty that the private sector ought to have, you know, on matters of security. And we have to tackle a Plan Central America of security that can solve those issues of violence, security, organized crime. This is a fundamental step to establish a structure and a development plan. With the most adequate plan, there are companies that could invest – who can’t invest until those security conditions are established. We have a plan that allows any investor from anywhere in the world to invest in Central America in a peaceful way without narratives that affect that investment, without collateral problems, without traumatizing or personalizing issues, and assuring the functioning of these certainties that are key, in terms of functioning judicial, social, economic certainty. So every Central American citizen can be assured that their lives matter within the community – the community that they were born in.

Dr. Berg: Secretary General, we have seen that the OAS – we have heard that they do not focus on the Caribbean. Should they strengthen collaboration with CARICOM, and how? If so, how?

Sec. Gen. Almagro: Well, we have worked with the Caribbean in joint documents. Last year, general secretariat of the OAS presented a document from vulnerability – called “From Vulnerability to Resilience.” And that was a document that really fostered our dynamic relationship with the Caribbean. It clarified many issues that we have to tackle jointly with the Caribbean countries. And that document essentially focuses on economic issues, social issues, climate change issues, and obviously each one of the pillars of the organization. But the document starts out, obviously, with the main issues – financial issues that Caribbean countries have to face. Issues of economic scale, how they affect their reconstruction year by year, debt and how this debt has affected the development of Caribbean countries, and how this has generated economic conditions that could be turned into – or, have turned into vicious cycles – negative vicious cycles, in some instances. And that document was sent to each representative – or, to each one of the accredited financial institutions. That document was presented at the G-20 and G-7. We expect this document to become – to continue to be developed. Now, his year we’re also going to work on – the rest of this year and the beginning of next year we’re going to work on two additional documents, not just regarding financial issues. But we hope that we can have more access and flexibility to credit and also debt collection and a new – a repositioning of Caribbean countries before the international community. Also, this document tackles climate change. This negative cycle, obviously – that’s the first – we’re the first frontier, right, is the third frontier or border with the United States. We have Canada with Mexico and the Caribbean. And the border with the Caribbean is a fundamental border for the United States. That is also a border that some of the states have in the United States with climate change are problems that are replicated disproportionately. And the countries, members of CARICOM, we also – we want to propose mitigation because these are – we have very small states, island states whose existence depends precisely on controlling global warming. And we also have to achieve adaptation solutions, adaptation regarding infrastructure, economic and social issues that are key. That is the document for this year. Another document that we are working on with the CARICOM member countries has to do with redressing of Afro-descent countries regarding the social conditions that slavery caused, the economic consequences, what they were, and how they should be redressed, and how the social situation of Afro-descended members of – or citizens of CARICOM countries reproduce in a very dramatic and cruel way the social conditions provoked by slavery. So, this is redressed in the document that we will draft. We’re also pushing for renewable energy and tourism of CARICOM countries, because those are the dynamizing elements of their countries. And so, we have a very intense agenda with CARICOM countries. We have very specific proposals that we are specifically tackling.

Dr. Berg: Very well, Secretary General. And I also want to tell the audience that we’re going to have a space in a couple of minutes so they can ask questions. And we’re going to provide answers. And if they want to ask a question, you can do it through the link of the event or you can also pose your questions in the chat of Zoom. Secretary General, the saying that you have at the Organization of American States is “more rights for more people.” How are you promoting this gender-inclusion? And so, if you can talk a little bit about the efforts to promote the inclusion of Afro-descended people and people with disabilities.

Sec. Gen. Almagro: Yes. We talked about this before a couple of weeks ago when I was talking to the Organization of Women in Latin America. And the transformation of gender is a fifth pillar of our organization. And this is a pillar that is very important in regards to gender topics and conditions of democracy, which is very intertwined. And women are very objective in regards to democracy in our countries. And we were talking about this before. We were talking about this course of women that wanted to work in the government, and the participation of women really show the levels of quality of democracy in our hemisphere. So women topics really shows that we need to keep working on organized crime issues, because they’re affected by this, by violence, by violence against women. Our countries are very affected by all of these issues. And they have to face all these problems and the social conditions that all of this generates – the violence, the delinquency in our countries, with institutions that are very weak, that do not have the ability to confront them. And in regards to human rights and equity has to do with civil rights, political rights, social rights, cultural rights. So all of the rights are affected. And we have structures – poverty structures that still penalize women. And I always tell the same story, because this is very graphic, but in 1815 our tia talked about the fact that the unhappiest should be the ones with more privileges. And they identified vulnerable groups – widows with children. Now, poverty is still a group of single women with kids, and they belong to a group of poverty. And also, Afro-descendants are 40 percent of the vulnerable groups. So we need to improve the conditions, access conditions. We are the continent that is not really equal with regards to gender or access to rights. And we need to face all these issues. This is an institutional problem and every country’s going to try to be whatever they want to be, but it has to be whatever people want that country to be. Each country has to transform the vulnerabilities of their own country and transform them and create solutions where it will fit in advance so that this stigma in our hemisphere can be really eliminated. We’re facing all these issues, and we have new tools in regards to the legal framework regarding the general secretariat for groups of Afro-descendants and indigenous groups. And we need to create solutions for them. And today I talked to the American Council of Indigenous People. And we have visited already reserves. And we have had meetings at least three times this year. And we have tried to provide solutions in regards to COVID-19, social and political issues. And we have also participated and observed elections in the indigenous groups. And this is a commitment and something that we need to work on. In regards to people with disabilities, we also talked to President Mr. Moreno to work with us for the Organization of American States. He worked previously on these issues with United Nations. And we have a department that is in charge of this. And they have created solutions and instituted different orders and rules and regulations for people with disabilities. And we have also, talking about discrimination, we have – we also have a department against discrimination and different groups. And that’s something that we have to face, and we cannot hide it anymore. And so, these variables, we have been generating workspaces. And we have tried to create solutions. And we have pushed these solutions and executed different programs and projects.

Dr. Berg: Thank you so much, Secretary General. And we have talked, and we have heard about this agenda, but recently the Organization of American States have been criticized by a lack of relevance in regards to confronting these contemporary challenges. What would be your feedback in regards to all those critics?

Sec. Gen. Almagro: Well, we need to be open to this criticism. And we have to – we have to really open up and keep committing ourselves to solve all the problems. We also need to do whatever is just and with good intentions. We really need to work with good intentions. We have also been criticized because sometimes Organization of American States has to do with a political agenda for all the hemispheres. And this organization is the one that has to confront human rights and fight for human rights in the hemisphere. So there are a lot of people that are not going to talk against democracy. You have mentioned three dictatorships in Latin America. And of course, they cannot talk and criticize this, but they’re going to criticize OAS. And we understand, but we have – and this organization, like the Pan-American Summit – and as the Organization of American States, we are the oldest organization in the world. And we have been defending democracy since 1889. We have been defending regional peace since 1889. And the map of the hemisphere has changed just a little bit, and we think it’s because of the hard work of this organization. We have the most advanced tools for human rights in this hemisphere. We have been defending democracy. And it’s because of our work, because of this organization, we have – or, there have been created special institutions like ECA and PAHO and OPAS. So the foundation of this organization is a very strong one, a very firm one. And the actions of this organization, they are permanent actions. When we talk about the political agenda, we do it in this organization. And we have focused on the political agenda of the whole hemisphere. Maybe for some years, maybe not, maybe another organization was in charge. But today, all the political agenda is within our organization. And if we need to talk about solutions, about Venezuela and Cuba, it’s something that on the organization. Financial solutions too, education, health solutions. It’s because of what we do. And we’re not talking only about common agendas, but we have created projects, and we have created rules and regulations. We have appealed so that the best work conditions are achieved in the region. So today we’re trying to keep flying high. And the organization in regards to the relevance of how to face the contemporary challenges, we’re trying to achieve better objectives and better goals. And it doesn’t have to do – it doesn’t have to do with our followers on social media. But we have been in all the newspapers because the relevance of this organization is a very obvious one. So we don’t really have to defend it. I think the organization defends itself. Other organizations have to criticize the Organization of American States to be in the news. So, I think our organization is a very strong organization, a very powerful. And we need to act and keep making it more powerful. And we have to be open to criticism, and understand it, and work on it. But the strategies, and the vision, and the four pillars give us a permanent vision and mission, which is a very powerful one, to keep working on these different issues.

Dr. Berg: Perfect. We see that your term will end in 2025. Let’s say that we are in 2026 and you have some time to breath and think about. Which is or what would you like to be your legacy?

Sec. Gen. Almagro: Our legacy is the work that I do. And the work that I do in regards to democracy, access to human rights, security, development. They’re never going to be finished. So what I want is to work in a professional manner and to be able to achieve different solutions for different claims, and to keep working on this same goals with all our country members, to be able to achieve our four pillars. So our job has to be an accumulation of cooperation amongst different countries. And we want to continue working on all of this to be able to achieve better security, human rights, democracy. So we don’t really need to finish something. Each project that we conclude, each just action that we conclude, each political prisoner that we can release is really an achievement that goes beyond all of this, be able to achieve better things for the whole hemisphere. And this is part of a large dynamic.

Dr. Berg: We will begin the Q&A section. And we have some questions at the moment. The first one is: What can the OAS do to foster new political leadership in the region?

Sec. Gen. Almagro: That cannot be our job, to foster leaders. I think you have to be very careful regarding that issue. I don’t think anybody can hit the target when they foster leaders. You know, they always choose the wrong people. And we were talking about this, actually. We think that the best leader is the one who talks the most or who’s the most articulate. And sometimes that comes with emptiness behind it. So, promoting youth leadership – for example, when you see the kind of leadership – youth leadership in the ’80s and ’90s, you never really saw them come to fruition. Because leadership depends on us. It depends on the people. That’s the issue. And instead of thinking, how can one international organization be related to that issue, we have to ask ourselves: How am I providing solutions as a citizen in my country, in my city? And, that’s where the true leadership is taking place. We could perhaps get some advice that are good, you know, act with dignity, with thinking of your – who was born in your country. I think that power is a bad traveling companion. And you have to think of these issues as fundamental because, listen, this is almost like a Franciscan task. In politics, we should have vows of poverty. We can’t have, you know, public funds that we become attached to. We have to go in and go out as poor men and women in positions of power. And in my opinion, that has always been – the letter that Aparicio Saravia received from his brother Silesio, you know, it reflects what political leadership ought to be.

Dr. Berg: Very well. Another question. The first article of the OAS charter prohibits external states interfering in internal issues of a sovereign state. How can you reconcile this article with the responsibility to protect human rights? What’s the balance there?

Sec. Gen. Almagro: Well, look, there’s an issue that is key in this. The Organization of American States is very clear regarding the issue that none of these articles of the OAS charter, and obviously no legal resources of this organization, to violate the internal principles or jurisdictions of the different states. Now, on issues of democracy and human rights, these are not exclusive issues of internal jurisdiction. The inter-American defense and democracy, all of those are very well-rooted values. And that’s why we have a democratic charter that was approved by consensus. This is why we have the, you know, human rights conventions and mechanisms that are established to protect human rights. This is why we are facing issues of, you know, having a responsibility to protect people, the effects of protecting people. And basically, this is a diplomatic tool. If you think about it, it’s basically – it’s 99.9 percent diplomatic. And I would rather remain in that 99.9 percent. That’s the responsibility, you know, that I have, to protect. I have a political and diplomatic responsibility. And it has to do with alleviate our people – you know, and the people of the world really – on issues of human rights, relieving them of genocide and also issues of atrocious crimes. That’s what I’m talking about. And honestly, the moral dilemma is very clear. As long as we understand that it’s the responsibility that we have is 99.9 percent, and where we remain is essentially diplomatic and political in nature. So this is a very clear dilemma. The moral dilemma is very clear. We are on the side of protecting people, or on the side of genocide. We are either on the side of protecting people or on the side of those who commit crimes – atrocious crimes. We are on the side of protecting people, or on the side of people who commit crimes against humanity. Which side are we on? I think we are on the side of protecting people from atrocious crimes, heinous crimes, from systematic violations of human rights, genocides, and crimes against humanity. And we have to have that responsibility with the people of the world. We have to have it at a regional level. I hope that we can always provide justice against crimes against humanity. I hope that we are a hemisphere where these types of crimes are decreasing. But every diplomatic negotiation and every solution that has been approved regarding dictatorships in the hemisphere focus on that responsibility to protect the people. That is the work that we do. So, I would rather remain in that 99.9 percent. That is where we are politicians and diplomats.

Dr. Berg: Very clear answer, Secretary General. Another question regarding El Salvador: Recently in El Salvador it was proposed to approve a law of foreign agents very similar to the one approved in Nicaragua to prevent the work of foreign agents. How do you think the secretary should be more clear regarding the issue of El Salvador? Thank you so much.

Sec. Gen. Almagro: This secretariat has always been clear on different issues – the institutional issues of El Salvador. We will always be clear about it. Sometimes – well, it’s clear that we’re not an NGO. We are a multilateral international organization, and we have institutional responsibilities. And we have to act accordingly. And we tackle institutional issues when it’s appropriate. And we tackle those issues, you know, when we wanted to vet a candidate. We also tackle them when we want to disable a political party. We tackle these institutional issues when – well, the majority – as you said, the majority. We have tackled these institutional issues always – at all times. All the intrusion in Congress, I mean, we have always followed that issue. And we have always provided institutional responses. And in this case obviously we have to tackle this issue from an institutional point of view. I can’t, look, you know, tweet about a 100-page document I have read. I mean, any institution cannot work at that level, as if we were an NGO that reacts violently at the first chance they get. Obviously when we talk, we have very structured, solid, and institutional reports.

Dr. Berg: Well, perhaps the last question, Secretary General, is a very important one, but I think that it’s a really easy one. Perhaps it could be just one word – a one-word answer. Do you think that OAS is ready to have one secretariat – or general secretariat?

Sec. Gen. Almagro: Yes. It’s always been ready to have a general secretariat, and to have one. It is clear that it should have been a general secretary. I think that the issue – the best candidates probably hope to be female candidates of the next year. So they left three men competing for the position and we missed out on having a female secretary general. So, the general assembly in Paraguay, for example, Ricardo Patiño called me and said: What do you think if we support Alicia Bárcena? And I said, 100 percent. We’ll support her 100 percent. But she didn’t want to do it. And honestly, I hope – well, I wish it had been the case. And I hope that the next term we have a female candidate. Nobody wishes that more than I do.

Dr. Berg: I will take the privilege as moderator to ask you the last question. And it’s the following one: Secretary General, is there something else that was left – not discussed? Something else that you would like to share with our audience.

Sec. Gen. Almagro: We could talk about the Packers issue that you mentioned at the beginning. (Laughs.) The best American football team is the Bears in the ’80s, without a doubt. I don’t care how many times the Packers have won the Super Bowl. But obviously, my teams, I come from a country that has four stars of world championship, you know? I have the team – the soccer team in Montevideo, Nacional, the world champions. So will let you make reference to the following: The work that we’ve done in politics, any work in politics, have to be geared toward honor. It’s something that was already said but is very important to repeat. It’s worth repeating. Politics have to be to honor not to dishonor, to unite and not divide, to add and not to take away. It has to interpret the feelings and the needs of the people, not a personal project. We have to work with institutions because institutions are the ones that give us the mechanisms and possibilities to reach solutions. These are not spontaneous and populist solutions here. You know institutions are the ones that are going to rescue our countries. They’re the ones who are going to lead our country to security, access to human rights, to have a better democracy.

Dr. Berg: Very well. Secretary General, thank you so much for your time and for the conversation regarding the OAS agenda and its legacy. It’s a very wide agenda, very full agenda. Thank you so much for your time today. And we wish you from CSIS much luck until the end of your mandate

Sec. Gen. Almagro: It is always welcome. Good luck is always welcome. Thank you so much. See you soon. Goodbye, everybody.