Photo: CSIS
This transcript is from a CSIS event hosted on October 8, 2024. Watch the full video here.
Hadeil Ali: How does the son of Indian immigrants become the U.S. Ambassador to India? How does an industrial engineering major become the third-highest ranking diplomat in the United States? The Honorable Richard Verma, deputy secretary of state for management and resources, joins us today to answer these questions, and more. I’m your host Hadeil Ali. Welcome to Driving Impact.
Announcer: Driving Impact, an exclusive insight into the personal backgrounds and careers of trailblazers on the front lines of policy.
Ms. Ali: Deputy Secretary Verma, it’s such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Deputy Secretary Richard R. Verma: It’s so nice to meet you. Thank you for having me here. I’m really looking forward to this discussion. Thank you.
Ms. Ali: I am as well. Let’s dive right in. And tell me about, as a child, when you were about 10-year-old, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up?
Deputy Secretary Verma: I do very clearly, because I never aspired to it. (Laughs.) But I wanted to be an astronaut. And was very committed to serving in the military, becoming a pilot, and going down the astronaut training route. And then a few things happened along that journey. I met advanced thermodynamics and advanced math in college, and realized that was not really my forte. And I also started working in in Washington on Capitol Hill about the same time, when I was 17 or 18, and realized I had a passion for things kind of more connected to policy and international work and national security.
And that’s where I redirected my efforts. I was interested in it, I was better at it, and frankly – (laughs) – it worked out in the right – in the right way. But that interest in space and that dream of being an astronaut was quite real. I even – when I see and meet astronauts today, I tell them about how 10- or 11-year-old me wrote a letter to NASA asking what I needed to do to become an astronaut, never thinking I might get a letter back. And, all the credit to NASA, they wrote me back a two page letter talking about the astronaut program and how you could qualify. So that was the initial dream.
Ms. Ali: Do you still have that letter?
Deputy Secretary Verma: I do, somewhere. I got to dig it up. But –
Ms. Ali: That’s awesome. And you have their – you still have their response also?
Deputy Secretary Verma: I do. I do.
Ms. Ali: You know, I don’t think it’s ever too late. (Laughter.) If you ever want to think about maybe a second, third, fourth, career, you know?
Deputy Secretary Verma: Yeah. Although, now as my kids remind me, I get dizzy on the spinning cups at the amusement park. So I can’t imagine actually getting into the space shuttle or a rocket and kind of headed out into space. But have so much appreciation for what they are doing, and really believe in the – in the mission.
Ms. Ali: Yeah. You talked about, you know, ending up in Washington. So let’s go backwards. Your parents immigrated to the U.S. from India and in the ’60s. And you talk about how your father arrived in the U.S. with $14 and a bus ticket. You end up in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. What was that experience like, growing up there?
Deputy Secretary Verma: Yeah. I could write a book that is titled $14 and a bus ticket, because that story resonates with so many people. I’ve told that story hundreds of times across the country. And my dad has told that story to us so many times growing up, sometimes it was $14, sometimes it was $22, but you get the point. He showed up, started over, like millions of other immigrants do, leaving a lot behind. And he had a fellowship, a Ford Foundation fellowship to the University of Northern Iowa. So that bus ticket took him from New York City to Iowa, where actually I’m going to go back this year, 60 years after he graduated. And got his master’s degree. Master’s led to Ph.D.
And his first teaching opportunity was in the University of Pittsburgh system in Johnstown, which is where we grew up. And it was a great experience. But also, again, like tens of millions of other immigrants, it was also a hard experience because you’re the first. We were the first Indian American family. We moved there in 1971. I was two, two and a half years old when we got there. And it was this perfect blend of Indian cultural, and religious, and ethnic traditions, but I was playing baseball, and football, and ice hockey and, you know, in the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. It was this perfect blend.
But you’re also starting over on your own. And I think about that a lot when I think about how people describe either South Asian or Indian immigrants, and being in the top 1 percent of United States, and they’re all the CEOs and business leaders. And I remember back to our story, which was not that. It was five young kids, two schoolteachers trying to make it work with no safety net. And how hard that can be, and how important it is to speak out for people who are trying to make it and trying to commit themselves the way my parents did.
And so that’s been an important lived experience for me and my family. It’s also been an important commitment for me when I go speak to diaspora groups, to make sure we’re not just talking to the 1 percent, that we are talking to everybody. And that’s how my dad was. Like, whether you were a taxi driver in New York or the, you know, executive of a company, he treated everyone with the same amount of respect, same amount of curiosity. And I’ve tried to carry that on as best I can.
Ms. Ali: It’s so important to hear about all those stories. You’re absolutely right, those stories of, you know, immigrants that come to the United States, there’s a lot of diversity in terms of those stories. And I think we typically only hear about some of them.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Correct.
Ms. Ali: So it’s so important, like you said, to hear about all of the –
Deputy Secretary Verma: Or, sometimes I think we forget about how hard the journey is. And it was not a straight line. Everything did not always – was not always positive, and was not always joyous. And there were days where I’m sure my parents wished they were back where they were – it was more familiar. But they really just worked so hard and set their minds to it. And everything was about could their kids have a better, brighter future? And that’s what they were pursuing.
Ms. Ali: So much sacrifice and resilience along the – along the way.
Deputy Secretary Verma: So much. That’s it.
Ms. Ali: And you talked about that balance between holding on to culture, traditions, but also wanting to fit in and do things that are classically American. We have a beautiful picture of you here playing baseball.
Deputy Secretary Verma: (Laughs.) I don’t know if it’s a beautiful picture, but it is a picture of me in high school, actually, playing on the baseball team.
Ms. Ali: Which is something very American, right? And there’s that balance of – you were talking about – keeping culture, whether it’s through religion, foods, what have you, but also wanting to fit in and make friends, as the first, like you said.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Yeah. Yeah. And for me, it was – it was an interesting experience. Because as much as we were doing the cross-cultural thing, I think there was a big part of me that just wanted complete assimilation. In other words, I don’t want to be different. I don’t want to be known as someone from another place. I don’t want my mom to wear different clothes. I don’t want my mom to cook different food, right? Because there was always – there was always that just, OK, I just want to fit in. I don’t want to have to answer 20 questions or have strange looks.
And you realize people are not looking at you strangely because they’re angry. They’re just looking at you strangely because they don’t know, honestly, about, OK, where are these people from and what is that background? So I spent – there was a lot of time just trying to blend in. And it was only when I was a little bit older – probably I’d say 10-12 years from when that picture is taken – where I started to realize, actually, you know, what? We can do both. We can really do both.
And I started to take on this kind of much more of a cross-cultural – I remember the first – one of the first things I did pronounce when it came to being Indian American or South Asian was to become the president of the South Asian Bar Association, which, if you would have asked 15- or 16-year-old Rich playing baseball here whether that was in the cards? Probably not. But I realized it was good. It was something to be proud of. That was also after I’d served five years in the Air Force too, as a U.S. Air Force officer.
So it gets back to, I think, something that concerns me – what I see today when I see people trying to define what it actually means to be, quote/unquote, “American.” And I think we want people of all of these interesting backgrounds and all of these interesting stories from across the world. And what I’ve seen in my current position in the State Department is it gives us such a massive advantage in the world. And that is a really, really uniquely American advantage that we can’t forget about.
Ms. Ali: Yeah. You made me think about this conversation I had just a few days ago with a few Arab Americans. And they were telling me, we need to change our names. Our names are not American. We need to change our names. I said, what does it mean to have an American name? You know, we’re all American, right? But we’re talking about the difficulties, right, that that creates for some of us, right, in workplaces where, you know, people don’t want to pronounce your name correctly, right? And you feel like, you know, you want to change to fit in.
But I think we had that conversation about the importance of, you know, pushing back to explain that we’re all American, right? And people can take time to learn your name, you know, even if it’s twice, three times. It doesn’t matter. But it’s really important because they were ready to – you know, this one guy told me, like, I’m – I think I need to go by Will. And I think that will make my life so much easier, right? And it’s really important for immigrant communities to have those conversations because you don’t want to assimilate to the point where you’re taking away everything that – you know, that’s part of your story and why you’re here.
Deputy Secretary Verma: No. Yeah, I mean, I’ll give you two examples about what I think about when people ask me about what it means to be American. And the first really is about my mother. And I remember when I was in high school, she said: It’s time. I want to become an American citizen. And I remember her studying for the naturalization exam. And she practiced. And, of course, she passed the exam with flying colors. And I remember her swearing in ceremony at the courthouse. And I remember she came home with a small, miniature American flag. And she set it in the kitchen on the windowsill, right next to her container of Indian spices.
And I thought that is the perfect example of someone, my mother, who spoke with an accent, who wore sorry a sari, who cooked Indian food, but also loved her country, loved her new country, paid her taxes, was a schoolteacher, committed member of the community. And I think of her, and I think that is a great American. Very proud of her and her story. Fast forward years later, I’m serving as U.S. ambassador. And I meet the Marine security guard detachment. Every embassy and consulate in the world, almost all of them are lucky to have the Marines out guarding the embassy.
And I remember meeting our Marine security guard detachment. I would say half, if not more than half, were not born in the United States. They had emigrated to the U.S. from all over. I never really asked their personal details, but what I knew is that at a very young age they decided they were going to make this commitment to this country. It was larger than them. It was larger than their family. And ultimately, they were prepared to sacrifice their lives in defense of the country. And I just thought, these are also great Americans. And we just can’t forget what it actually means.
So, again, when I hear political people, when I hear social media people defining what it looks like or sounds like to be, quote/unquote, “American,” I just – we have to really push back on that. If we want the kind of strong, robust country that we have today to continue, we have to remember what are real advantages and what brings people here.
Ms. Ali: Yeah, what makes us who we are.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Yeah.
Ms. Ali: Absolutely. I want to talk to you a little bit more about your family and the influence that they’ve had on you – your parents as educators, and you’re the youngest of five. You’ve brought a memento to share with us. We ask all of our guests to bring a memento that symbolizes a memorable moment in their life or career. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you brought, and why you decided to share that with us?
Deputy Secretary Verma: Yeah. So I brought this picture of the family. This is about 1971, when we were about to set out on that journey across the country to Johnstown, Pennsylvania. And what I see in this picture is just a lot of hope, a lot of spirit, a closeness of a family that is – doesn’t know what’s necessarily coming ahead but, again, has made this larger commitment. And it was – you know, it symbolizes this journey that we’ve been on. And my dad and my mom did these – you know, yes, they did the physical journey from India, but then they did this journey of learning – lifelong learning. They were both educators.
They did this journey of kind of impact – that had an impact on the community and all of us. That picture just reminds me. It was the start of our American journey. And I keep that picture in my office. And it’s just – whenever I’m having a tough day, or I think I’m having a hard day, or things don’t seem particularly bright, I look back at that picture. And it gives me the kind of hope like, OK, they got through a lot. We can certainly get through whatever I might think is giving me a challenge on a particular day. So it’s a very kind of hopeful picture to remind me that, you know, they worked so hard. I can – I can do a similar thing and try to live up to what they – what they did.
Now, having two – let me just say, having two Indian schoolteachers as your parents was also not the easiest thing in the world. I remember coming home with my report card, like, eighth or ninth grade, and it was all A’s and an A minus. I was like, oh, this is great. I remember my dad pulling me aside. And he said, so what happened with the A minus? You know, what –anything you need to talk about? Or is everything OK? (Laughter.) So let’s just say the standard was set pretty high.
Ms. Ali: That’s probably one of the values, the work ethic, right?
Deputy Secretary Verma: Right, right, exactly, yeah.
Ms. Ali: Thank you so much for sharing that with us. And as we talk about this idea of, you know, giving back, serving in the military, right? You made that decision to serve in the Air Force. Why?
Deputy Secretary Verma: Yeah. Well, it did tie in with that astronaut dream a little bit. But again, I was really interested in service – in public service. And I wanted to – I was very interested in national security. And I didn’t know if I would serve in the military for five years or 25 years, but I wanted to give it a shot. And again, I tell this to my friends in the military all the time, without the U.S. Air Force I wouldn’t be sitting here today. You know, full scholarship through college and, you know, just the kind of training, and support, and mentorship, and camaraderie, and the leadership lessons that I learned there, again, incredible sense of fairness and equality. It’s just – it is a great institution. And I’m so proud to have been a part of it.
And you can imagine – again, for my parents, it was like, what are you – you know, what are you doing? We just – we just got here. So literally, just think about it, it was 13 or 14 years after we arrived in the United States that I’m filling out my application for Air Force, Navy, and Army scholarships. And they couldn’t actually believe it. Now, they should believe it because what I found out later – my parents weren’t great about talking about their own upbringings but, of course, I go back to India as ambassador. I am able to go back to their hometowns and their villages and go to their – where they grew up. And, again, a very difficult time during Indian independence, the partition, India and Pakistan.
And what I actually learned is that they were incredibly active in service, incredibly active as community organizers. My dad was a – led this big Indian independence movement on his campus. My mom was a social worker trained at Gandhi’s ashram. You know, I say to young people all the time, you don’t really know where you’re going in life until you know where you’re from. And I finally got a chance to really understand where I was from and what programmed them. So in a way–
Ms. Ali: When you went back?
Deputy Secretary Verma: When I went back. And so, in a way, I think they were trying to say, like, you don’t need to do what we did. Don’t go into this public service field. Go off and do something, you know, that’s more stable. (Laughs.) But clearly, I ended up – this interest was not too distant from their own commitments to service when they – when they grew up. And that’s what I only discovered later in life.
Ms. Ali: I would love to talk to you more about that. Just ask you very briefly about your – when you worked for a congressman. You were about – were you 18 or so?
Deputy Secretary Verma: Eighteen, yeah.
Ms. Ali: I just think about an 18-year-old getting this exposure to government, politics, at such an early age. If you were to – I’m sure there were many lessons, but if you were just to share one lesson that you took away from that experience, so early in your career?
Deputy Secretary Verma: Oh, it’s such a – it was such an important experience for me. Yeah, again, to be 18, from this small town. And now, again, lucky for us, I’ve just been so fortunate to be in the right place at the right time over the course of my career. But he was a great member of Congress, John Murtha, former Marine, chairman of the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee. And I ended up meeting him at an event in Johnstown. I was 17 years old. And he says, you should come work for me next summer. And my dad was standing off to the side. And he was nodding his head saying, just say yes. Just say yes. (Laughter.)
Ms. Ali: Doesn’t matter the details.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Doesn’t matter, yeah, exactly. And next thing you know, there I – you know. And I remember my work started on Monday. And my mom made me practice riding the metro from – I was staying at Catholic University – from Catholic University to Union Station. We walked to the Rayburn Building in the House of Representatives and then walked back, just to make sure I was going to be there on time. But totally transformative experience.
I will also tell you – and that was 1987. I will also tell you, it was a time – and I remind people today – when people could really – seemed to be able to work across the aisle and solve big problems. So I remember, again, being 18 and seeing Ronald Reagan’s defense secretary come into the office, sit down, work out the defense bill. The next year, or two years later, I guess it was, Dick Cheney was the secretary of defense coming into the office.
And it just reminded me, when I think about some of our challenges in foreign policy and national security, sometimes I wish we could get back to that period where we’re playing the game between the 40 yard lines, right, and we’re not at these kind of extreme ends of the field, because that’s my experience growing up is that leaders used to be able to get these hard questions about our foreign policy and national security for the good of the country, and kind of set politics behind. So it was transformational for me in so many ways, personally and professionally.
Ms. Ali: And I’m sure you took so many of these lessons with you. You were mentioning you became the U.S. ambassador to India in 2015. Not an easy time to become the U.S. Ambassador to India. We have a picture here of your swearing-in ceremony.
Deputy Secretary Verma: My swearing in. It’s December 2014, with Secretary Kerry and then the Ambassador Taranjit Sandhu, yeah.
Ms. Ali: It was such a tense time, right? And you think about – there was a lot of work that you had to do to enhance bilateral cooperation. What was your mindset like at the time? Yeah, it was – I mean, look, U.S.-India, relations have been, I would say, up and down over our 77-year relationship, since independence. I think what we didn’t know is what kind of relationship President Obama and Prime Minister Modi would have. Turns out, they had a very good relationship. And we were able to ride that wave, frankly, of cooperation between the two of them, which opened up all these new pathways of cooperation in defense, in trade, in people to people ties, in health, and education, and so much more.
And, again, I – in fact, I took great advice from Ambassador Sandhu who said, make sure you get out of New Delhi and get around the country. So I took that advice and really doubled down on it. I went to every state in India.
Ms. Ali: And you were the first ambassador to go to all 29 states.
Deputy Secretary Verma: First ambassador to go to all 29 states, which was an incredible experience. See what Americans of all kinds, of all ages were doing across the country to tell our public diplomacy story, and also learn about some of the challenges that people were facing. So again, professionally and personally, we had an incredible experience. We had, again, progress on bilateral ties. I was able to go back and learn about my own family’s history. And we – it’s hard to find a better professional experience. And my family was there with me, so I just am so grateful for that opportunity that the president bestowed upon me.
Ms. Ali: I thought it was so important to hear about you going to all states, right? When we think about this idea of diplomacy, right, it’s all about people to people, right? Making people feel seen, heard, right? And so I really appreciated, you know, hearing that – hearing that story, and how much it impacts people, right, to go shake their hands, hear their stories. You know, right before we started our conversation, you asked me, tell me about you, right? How much that you – people remember that, right? You might forget, you know, titles, and, you know, accomplishments, all that. But you don’t forget how someone made you feel.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Well, the other thing about serving as an ambassador which surprises people is that there is really no job description, right? (Laughter.) It’s not as if you – like, here are the 10 things you do each day. You show up in the capital with a letter from the president. You present that to the head of state in India. And then, in my case, I go back to the embassy, where there were 700 people in the auditorium that morning waiting for me to say something super inspiring and informative.
Of course, I didn’t know what to say or do. And you just start to put the pieces together. And I am reminded very much of the conversation I had with President Obama, sitting in the Oval Office with him. He asked me – well, he asked me a question then he gave me a piece of advice. He said, how do you think it’s going to be, being Indian American going back to India? I said, well, it’s a big job. It’s our second-largest mission in the world. If you think – I said, you should send someone who can do the management piece, the security piece, the trade piece, the economic piece. He said, don’t worry, you got that.
And I said, well, then I think being Indian American is probably going to be an advantage, because we are one generation away from the lived stories that everyone there is going through. And if it helps make a connection to people or, again, show up in places that maybe others wouldn’t have shown up, hopefully that’s a plus. And I think it was a plus. But you’ve got to be able to demonstrate that you can do the fundamentals of the – of the job. And we tried to do that.
The other piece of advice he gave me is, in the grand course of history you were there for but a blink of an eye. And he said, so keep your expectations modest and make it better for whoever comes after you. And that always stuck with me too. That this is a finite period of time. We can do our little part. Put it in – put the relationship in better shape for whoever comes next. And we tried to do that. So we kind of set out with, I think, modest expectations, but we had a public diplomacy view, a security view, trade view. And we tried to put those building blocks in place.
Ms. Ali: I want to make sure to show our audience this picture that, you know, you talked about going back, right, and seeing that throughline when you went back. And this is a photo of where your mom and grandmother grew up in India. How did you end up there?
Deputy Secretary Verma: (Laughs.) Well, it’s a great question. Frankly, we went and we knocked on their door. (Laughs.) And, of course, when we show up, we don’t show up small. So we showed up – you know, there were a few hundred people outside when we knocked, but they couldn’t have been more gracious. And I went there when I was five years old with my mother to visit my grandmother, and then hadn’t been back until this year – this would have been 2015, I guess. And it was a very special moment.
Again, it reminded me of the very humble beginnings of how they started. And you can’t ever forget those roots. I was able to also go – on that same day, go to the school where my mother and grandmother taught, which is a girls’ school in an impoverished area of Punjab, which still very much exists today. And I went and met the young girls at the school. So much hope, so much promise. But what was even more interesting, after that there was a small reception and a number of women came out – now in their ’70s, probably ’80s. And they came out and they, you know, squeezed my cheeks. And they said, you know, without your mother and grandmother, we would not be here today.
They were the ones who told us about the importance of staying in school and studying and working hard. And it reminded me about impact. And when I think about, yes, we do this really neat work at the State Department that we think we’re having this global impact. And we show up at summits, and we show up at all these kind of fancy meetings. But then I think sometimes the real impact you can have of just changing the course of someone’s life by encouraging them to stay in school, or helping them with a problem they’re having. That’s a real impact, too. And I – again, when I speak to a lot of younger folks, I remind them that sometimes we go off searching for all these big problems to solve. Sometimes the biggest impact you can have is right there in your family, your neighborhood, your school. And we can’t forget that either.
Ms. Ali: Yeah. All of this takes us to today, right? Last year, April 2023, you were sworn in as deputy secretary of management and resources. You became the highest ranked Indian American diplomat in U.S. history, and the third highest ranked official at the State Department. What do these historic firsts – I know it’s – you know, people sometimes have mixed feelings about hearing about these historic firsts, right? What does it feel to you to hear about that, and the impact that you’ve made with the position that you are in today at the State Department?
Deputy Secretary Verma: Yeah. I mean, I think, one, I’m incredibly grateful for the opportunity. And, again, I’ve been super lucky to be in the right place at the right time. And also knowing that there are, you know, a lot of responsibilities put on your – on your shoulders to live up to the expectations, but also kind of the way you can pay back all those people who have helped you over the years is to really try to deliver in jobs like this, and not forget all those people who you can try to lift up. So this is a great job. And I’m really just super blessed to have been in this role for a year and a half now, and love everything about the State Department.
We’ve traveled widely. We’ve been to which, geez, 58 embassies and consulates in 18 months. We’ve traveled to dozens of countries. Ton of problems in the world, but I’m also super heartened by what I see from our workforce and what I see – you know, the promise of what lies ahead for so many people if we can get some things right and, again, have that kind of impact. So, I don’t know, I’m overwhelmed at times when I think about the fact that I have a position like this. And just want to try to work hard at it. And, as President Obama said, you know, leave things in a better place for whoever might come after me.
Ms. Ali: Absolutely. And there’s so much that falls within this role. And what I appreciated was the piece about the workforce, right, and the importance of having a diverse and talented workforce to meet a lot of the challenges, right? Whether it’s new issues or new offices and bureaus that the State Department has to open. When we think about innovation and modernization, all these things that fall within what you’re doing at the State Department, it’s all about the people, right, and who’s going to get the job done in making sure that everyone in the United States – from Washington, D.C. to Johnstown, Pennsylvania – is represented in that workforce.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Hundred percent. I’ve had this conversation with, you know, the chair and ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And we talk about diversity. And we talk about all kinds of diversity. We want people from all 50 states. We want people from different backgrounds, different economic backgrounds, different ethnic backgrounds, different colleges. I think what had happened in the department, much like a large company or any other place in America that had a status of being elite, right? The State Department is a very elite place over many decades.
And so you start to recruit from the same places. You start to narrow who is actually able to come in. And we thought, again, we’re not the first group to think about this, but Secretary Blinken and President Biden, Vice President Harris, said, look, we need to open up the aperture of folks who can come and serve in the department. So we have changed how we recruit, how you take the foreign service exam. It used to be you had to get on a plane and fly to Washington to take the oral exam. You don’t have to do that anymore. You can do it online. We used to not pay the interns.
Ms. Ali: I was an unpaid intern.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Right? I’m sorry about that. (Laughter.) Think about how many people can actually travel to Washington, afford to live, and eat, and stay while they work? So small thing, like the paid internships. We have fellowship programs, kind of like Air Force ROTC, that, you know, will pay for your graduate school if you come and serve in the department. We have more veterans than probably any other agency outside of the Defense Department. We have a new mid-career program. We have diplomats and residents across the country that do hundreds of different recruiting events. All to build a more diverse department to give us the edge, frankly, in international diplomacy. A more diverse department is going to make us stronger. We’re going to have more people with different views, and backgrounds, and stories. It’s just – we’re going to be a more effective organization. And I think that’s proving itself to be true.
Ms. Ali: I know we’re running out of time, but I have to show this last photo.
Deputy Secretary Verma: It’s not me playing baseball again, is it? OK, right. OK.
Ms. Ali: No, no, no, not the baseball. A naturalization ceremony. And if you can just share – you love going to these, right? This one is from earlier this year in January, in California. If you can just share an emotion or two – you know, if I were to go to a similar room, what is one emotion that you would feel?
Deputy Secretary Verma: Oh, pride. You see these incredible – each one of the people sitting there has an incredible story to tell. And, again, I think back to my own mother and father. So this was in, I want to say, Roseville, just outside Sacramento. Did a large ceremony there. We just did another one recently in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. And I – just, one, I’m welcoming them. I’m congratulating them. I love this partnership we have with USCIS, Department of Homeland Security, where they – you know, State and DHS working together to welcome people, again, who have made a commitment to something larger than themselves.
It is about a commitment to a set of ideals and principles grounded in the Constitution of the United States. And that’s what they swear an oath to on the day that they’re sworn in. And it’s – I’m reminded of my own naturalization ceremony in Pittsburgh in about 1985, or so. I just pulled out that naturalization certificate in that picture the other day. I’m glad you’re not showing it here. (Laughter.)
Ms. Ali: Full circle moments.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Full circle moments. And so these are – these are the fun, inspiring, memorable parts of the job. But the people who deserve all the credit are the ones sitting in the rows out here, who many times have really difficult backgrounds in terms of journeys that they’ve taken just to get here where they are. They’ve worked so hard. They’ve taken so much risk. Many of them have left lots of family behind, again, in order to come here, work hard, and play by the rules, and contribute. And so these are – these are great moments, and incredible ceremonies to attend.
Ms. Ali: Yeah. Each one of them has a unique story. Deputy Secretary Verma, to close out our conversation, I like to ask our guests three questions every episode of Driving Impact, rapid fire.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Uh-oh. (Laughs.)
Ms. Ali: Can we do this?
Deputy Secretary Verma: We can try, yes. I’ll do the best I can. OK.
Ms. Ali: OK. Let’s do it. What are three words you would use to describe your career?
Deputy Secretary Verma: OK. Lucky, as I mentioned. Global, because I’ve focused on international things. And, I guess, learning, and just realizing how much I don’t know at each step of the way, and I’ve had to learn a lot.
Ms. Ali: In your opinion, what does it mean to be American?
Deputy Secretary Verma: I think it – again, it’s that commitment to something beyond ourselves, to that quest to form a more perfect union, and to live up to the social compact and shared values that we all have about this country. And that’s what it means to me.
Ms. Ali: And what is giving you hope right now?
Deputy Secretary Verma: Oh, so much, honestly. Again, when I go around the world and I talk to folks, whether American or foreign audiences, I go through the list of challenges that we have. And there are no shortage of global challenges. But then I talk about the way people are living longer, and we’re more connected, we are learning more. I am incredibly hopeful, if we keep working together, if we keep remembering about America’s role in the world, if we treat each other with respect, if we listen to each other – just some basic things we have to keep doing – and continuing to stand up for all those people who are trying to make it, just like we were trying to make it here in the early ’60s and ’70s. So I’m incredibly hopeful about the future. And I think the future is quite bright.
Ms. Ali: Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I really enjoyed our conversation today.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Thank you so much. Thanks for what you’re doing and for highlighting these stories. Again, I’m here because so many people came before me, but I appreciate you giving me this chance to talk about my story and my family’s story.
Ms. Ali: Thank you for being here.
Deputy Secretary Verma: Thank you.
Ms. Ali: You heard it yourself. Deputy Secretary Richard Verma, the son of Indian immigrants who rose from smalltown Pennsylvania to the highest ranks of U.S. diplomacy. A testament to the power of possibility. His service-oriented career truly embodies what it means to be American.
Thank you for tuning in to today’s conversation. You can find more episodes of Driving Impact on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts.
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